[Trade] Flames acquire G Brian Elliott for 35th OA & conditional 2018 3rd

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Huh? That chart says nothing about how the goalie performed. All it shows is the shots and missed shots faced.

You said Elliott faced more shots, yet the colors on Ramo's chart are significantly darker in contrast. Even outside "home plate"

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I never bought that excuse for Hamilton. In any given season about a third of players in the NHL are learning a new system. And as was pointed out by edslunch, every player on the Flames will be learning a new system next season. Should we expect them all to play terribly for the first couple months?

Hamilton had only played for one coach in his professional career; and that coach's system was miles away from Hartley's. In fact, most coaches' systems are miles away from Hartley's.

I think it's a safe bet that Gulutzan will be employing a more conventional defensive system than Hartley did, which means that none of the players will have to learn anything radically new – unlike Hamilton last year.

[cofias]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Does anyone know where this table came from? From what I can tell, the data isn't available anymore from war-on-ice.com. Would like to see how Eliott fits into it...

Data is still available but they do not present it anymore. Check out https://ianmfleming.blogspot.se/2016/05/save-chart.html

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I've outlined the home plate area. Ramo's work load shows shots throughout the HP, whereas Elliott's work load shows that shots were more spread out (there were more of them "supposedly", but less concentrated in the home plate area)

Ramo saw 27.9 SA/G


Elliott saw 26.5 SA/G

I'm obviously missing something because that looks like the exact opposite of what you're describing.

To me, that looks like Ramo's shots are spread out a lot more and Elliott's are heavily concentrated right in front of the goal.

[RougeUnderoos]

Colour me as confused/confusing as these colourful graphs and charts. What is the discussion here? Like, I doubt anyone is saying Elliott isn't way better at goalietendering than Ramo, but I'm not sure.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Colour me as confused/confusing as these colourful graphs and charts. What is the discussion here? Like, I doubt anyone is saying Elliott isn't way better at goalietendering than Ramo, but I'm not sure.

Here's my biggest issue with those charts. They track misses, which doesn't count as a shot on goal, and is therefore useless. A goalie doesn't have to stop pucks that miss.

[bigrangy]

I don't think he's using them to compare Ramo and Elliott as goalies, I think he's trying to say that Calgary gives up different kind of chances than the Blues do. Calgary's shots against come from everywhere, the Blues concentrate them right in front of the net.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

I don't think he's using them to compare Ramo and Elliott as goalies, I think he's trying to say that Calgary gives up different kind of chances than the Blues do. Calgary's shots against come from everywhere, the Blues concentrate them right in front of the net.

The total area of misses vs. SOG looks roughly the same to me. Elliott just stopped more pucks, it's that simple.

[Roof-Daddy]

With a 0.919 save percentage last season the Flames would have given up 50 less goal

Would have had a +21 goal differential instead of a -29

How many points in the standings would that have equated to?

Obviously an over simplified way of looking at things, but Elliot combined with what we all hope will be a better defensive system should have this team in the hunt for playoffs. It doesn't have to be 0.930 Elliot either.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

The total area of misses vs. SOG looks roughly the same to me. Elliott just stopped more pucks, it's that simple.

From the graph, it seems apparent that the Flames and Blues have different approaches on how to prevent offense in their zones. The Flames seem to leave the points wide open, allowing many shots from there, where the Blues seem to cover the points well, restricting shots from there, but allowing more down low.

Elliot is a goalie who has a great high-danger sv% by my memory, but since war-on-ice went dark I don't know where to find things anymore. The Blues, knowing this, weren't as worried about protecting the slot as the Flames were, and thus their shot pattern against is fairly different.

Hopefully GG realizes this and acts accordingly.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Here's my biggest issue with those charts. They track misses, which doesn't count as a shot on goal, and is therefore useless. A goalie doesn't have to stop pucks that miss.

You know what The Great One said:

"You save 100% of the shots you don't face".

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I never bought that excuse for Hamilton. In any given season about a third of players in the NHL are learning a new system. And as was pointed out by edslunch, every player on the Flames will be learning a new system next season. Should we expect them all to play terribly for the first couple months?

What exactly is the Flames system? Fall back and collapse in front of the net and sacrifice your body to block shots? I imagine it took him a while to get used to playing an outdated system that went against a lot of principles he had been taught over his career. Even guys like Gio and Brodie that were well versed in the system looked like amateurs at times last season.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Does anyone know where this table came from? From what I can tell, the data isn't available anymore from war-on-ice.com. Would like to see how Eliott fits into it...

He'd probably be somewhere where Pickard would be at, as a fairly large blue dot.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You know what The Great One said:

"You save 100% of the shots you don't face".

[Calgary4LIfe]

The way I interpret those graphs, it seems more like the Flames allowed more shots from everywhere, whereas St. Louis contained more shots. Maybe I am bringing-in too information from Hartley's more passive system which didn't pressure the team in the defensive zone and relied on collapsing more, but that is how I interpret that graph.

It does explain why Ramo would get out of position more, however. Allowing a lot more shots from 'everywhere' forces Ramo to move more in net - out of his net to cut down the angle, back into the net, side to side, etc., than if the shots were coming more from a smaller area of the ice.

It actually makes me wonder if Ramo would see an increased SV% if Calgary's system functioned more like St. Louis in how they don't allow shots from different areas.

Also, a missed shot is important because a goalie still has to move to get into position to save it, not take a water break. The goalie than has to readjust to another potential shot - missed or not.

Maybe the economy of movement in St Louis helped Elliot a bit more, and hurt Ramo in Calgary? Just speculating.

Either way, I think the Flames got a huge upgrade in net, and hopefully with a change in defensive zone play, Elliot will be better able to translate his success from St. Louis into Calgary, and Ramo (if re-signed, which I am not against but feel is doubtful) or Ortio will see increased SV% as well.

I wonder if |Hartley designed his system due to having Russell, Brodie and Wideman out more - none of which are really physically imposing defencemen, and thus he felt would perhaps be a defensive system more suited to the Flames' top 4 at the time? Getting Hamilton, and then Jokipakka, while eliminating Russel and at least keeping Wideman at a reduced role with Engelland should allow Gulutzan to implement any system he wants, as the Flames D are bigger this year, but yet just as mobile and able to move the puck.

I do expect any goalie (except Hiller) to do better in Calgary this year, and how much better I think will be dependent on the system implemented. Just adding Elliot and keeping things status quo should see an uptick in SV%, I would guess.

I just wonder if the team is going to keep Ortio, or will they sign a more experienced backup like Enroth, Johnson, Montoya, or even Ramo back (and I think Ramo was indeed better than Ortio). If that happens, I don't think you keep Ortio at all. Flames already have 2 goalies for Stockton. Sure, they could send one to Adirondack, but it won't be Ortio since apparently he refused going down to Stockton for a conditioning stint last season, IIRC.

Can't wait how the rest of this plays out, and how the team plays overall a month into the season.

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You know what The Great One said:

"You save 100% of the shots you don't face".

Hedley said "you miss 100% of the shots you never take"

[GoJetsGo]

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What exactly is the Flames system? Fall back and collapse in front of the net and sacrifice your body to block shots? I imagine it took him a while to get used to playing an outdated system that went against a lot of principles he had been taught over his career. Even guys like Gio and Brodie that were well versed in the system looked like amateurs at times last season.

This system was used by the Penguins in the Finals with great success. Don Cherry was railing on Mike Johnson for not having his players cover point shots.

[1qqaaz]

I'm thinking Chad Johnson and his career 91.7 save percentage might be the best option as a backup. Career-wise, he's 50-30, so he can definitely win games (even on Buffalo). Plus, there's a chance he'd sign a hometown discount.

Last year in 45 games, he had 92%. Other than his time in New York, he has had very strong stats throughout his career.

Johnson allows 1.6 fewer goals per 100 shots than Ortio does. That could make the difference in quite a few games. It could even be the difference for making the playoffs. He's used to playing at least 25 games, so the load on Eliot wouldn't be too heavy.

I hope the Flames consider Johnson and Enroth. I just have a hard time believing that Ortio is better than every single backup option available.

[Jay Random]

The only knock against Chad Johnson is that he's already 30. Ortio is five years younger and may still have room to improve.