What happens when we die?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

My view is that science does not exclude the existence of a god. When you consider everything science can tell us as well as can't tell us about the universe it actually makes me wonder how anyone can so quickly dismiss the possibility with such certainty.
let me see, so science tells us everything in the universe, everything we will ever see, touch, smell... was all created from a point smaller than the smallest part of an atom? a point so small, so dense, so hot, so heavy that it defies our comprehension? this point contained all the energy, all the matter, all the heat and all the radiation that makes up our universe? That this point, suddenly and without explanation, expanded at a rate greater than the speed of light, spreading matter and radiation across our universe. A universe that is expanding at ever increasing rates, until such a time that it will pull all matter so far that everything will cease to exist. Oh, and we have no idea what preceded this point, what created it and what caused it to expand.
Then when you consider everything that had to go right for us to exist on this planet. Sitting in the goldielock zone of the solar system; having a molten iron core that provides us our magnetic field; the right amount of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen to form an atmosphere; a moon large enough to stabilize our poles; a sun that's not too small and not too large, making it stable enough to burn for billions of years. Then there's the serious of events which made it possible for us to evolve and thrive including previous extinction events, the carboniferous period which provided an excessive amount of co2, allowing plants and fungi to flourish, which lead to a huge increase of oxygen levels... i'm sure there's more, I just can't think of them right now.
All i'm saying is it's absolutely incredible to me that we're here and it could all be luck i guess, but I'm certainly not comfortable with all of this to blindly dismiss the idea of a creator.

The science on the big bang has always admitted that they have little to no understanding of the initial conditions. The period after that is much better understood. So there is no claim to know what happened. Obviously it is very tough to gather the evidence for 14 billion years ago. If your solution is to say that because we don't know itwas probably God is obviously not very logical.

As for the Goldilocks issue with Earth, if it hadn't been us here, it would have been someone else somewhere else(and could also be). There are an incomprehensible number of stars in the galaxy, so the odds of it happening more than once are high. You could get into the Drake equation, but logic tells us that although there are plenty of things that had to come together on Earth for us to be here, it's not an unreasonable expectation for it to happen elsewhere, or with a different combination of factors given that vast number of planetary systems that must exist.

[monkeyman]

See this is what i hate about atheists. I say science doesnt have all the answers and therefore im open to the possibility of a master creator. I said nothing about a catholic interpretation of it yet some choose to assume thats my view and mock me with it. I have news for you, im not catholic and don't believe in a god with a big white beard. All im saying is, im not ruling out the possibility. Having an open mind to the unknown doesnt seem silly to me.

[Laughman]

I must say that this is the best thread on the forum of all time.
Thread has not derailed, lots of input, and very thought provoking.
Kudos
For myself, I just don't know.
I'd like to say I'm a atheist in the traditional sense, we die and become fertilizer in the ground.
When I read thru the thread, I start having deeper thoughts and everything becomes confused.
If it turns out we are a computer simulation or a hologram, then who made us? If we find the answer to that, then who made "them"? And so on.....
We are here against all odds, anomaly of the universe, everything went into motion after the Big Bang; Who/what put everything into motion to let the Big Bang happen?
Same argument if our universe has lots of intelligent life? Who or what pressed the "start" button on the point of singularity.
Some will say "God" created everything, or put all the necessary pieces together to allow for the Big Bang and my question after that is who created God?
Something can't come from nothing, and no matter how advanced we ever are, I think this question will be forever unanswered.

[Laughman]

Jesus of Nazareth, or any other God/religion/following founded by man of earth doesn't have a leg to stand on if life is ever found in our own solar system, galaxy, universe, or in a parallel universe.

Edit:
Won't have a leg to stand on when life is found in our own solar system, Galaxy, universe.

[Roast Beef]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

See this is what i hate about atheists. I say science doesnt have all the answers and therefore im open to the possibility of a master creator. I said nothing about a catholic interpretation of it yet some choose to assume thats my view and mock me with it. I have news for you, im not catholic and don't believe in a god with a big white beard. All im saying is, im not ruling out the possibility. Having an open mind to the unknown doesnt seem silly to me.

If you don't believe in a god(s) then you are one of those atheists as well, welcome to our club.

I will agree with you that science doesn't have all the answers, it never has and it never will. That being said, science as it is, is currently the best and most reliable tool humanity has to explain the universe we live in. It relies on repeatable and falsifiable observation, experimentation and evidence. Science concerns itself with the natural world, since the "supernatural" world (god, ghosts, spirits, heaven, hell etc.) is outside of the natural world, science isn't even equipped to investigate it because there is no evidence for it.

That's where I stand. I don't believe in a god, but I don't say that I know a god or creator or a heaven or hell or ghosts etc don't exist. I just don't concern myself with those things since there's is no evidence for me to even consider them as real. If that evidence somehow changes in the future I would change my mind. (scientific evidence, not some hokey garbage like personal prayers, miracles etc.)

[Vulcan]

All this need for evidence or proof is beside the point. For me god is an internal experience to be enjoyed.

The mind or the brain has different levels if not something different entirely controlling it. For me the mind or the brain is a tool to be used.

But at other times your thoughts are scattered, and your mind races from one thing to another. It's for those times that you need to learn and practice concentration strategies. They involve (1) learning mental self regulation and (2) arranging factors that you can immediately control.

https://www.k-state.edu/counseling/t.../concentr.html

So what is training or directing your mind?

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So what is training or directing your mind?

How can you ask a question like this, when your post opened with the statement:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

All this need for evidence or proof is beside the point.

How can you possibly be reasoned with, when you believe that evidence and proof are beside the point? That is the definition of unreasonable.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

How can you ask a question like this, when your post opened with the statement:



How can you possibly be reasoned with, when you believe that evidence and proof are beside the point? That is the definition of unreasonable.

That's putting it kindly.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by The Fonz
How can you ask a question like this, when your post opened with the statement:



How can you possibly be reasoned with, when you believe that evidence and proof are beside the point? That is the definition of unreasonable.

Originally Posted by Sliver

That's putting it kindly.

Well experiencing god is not reasonable. He can't be experienced with the mind. Can you use your mind to experience say an apple? That's why you are approaching this from the wrong place.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I know there have been studies done to see how long the brain functions after decapitation. I recall it being in the ballpark of 5-10 seconds.

I didn't read the last few pages as every page seems to be the same as the previous one, but I would think the idea of infinite slowing of time to be equally far-fetched to a consciousness floating up to heaven or down to hell. This is the real world, not Inception or Ant-Man.

How long do you perceive a dream to be vs how long does it actually take to have that dream?

When you are drunk or high your perception of time changes significanlty. Oxygen deprevation produces time dilation affects. So when you are dying your brain is slowly starved of oxygen while you become unconscious.

So a change in perception of time as your oxygen is deprived is certainly within current knowledge.

[Roast Beef]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well experiencing god is not reasonable.

I Agree 100% Experiencing god is not reasonable....

Originally Posted by Vulcan

He can't be experienced with the mind.

Um... If he (and why do you think that god is a he? That's pretty messed up.) can't be experienced with the mind then why are there so many people claiming to know what "he" says? They always claim to know the "word" of god no matter their religion. Why do people claim to know the word of god if it can't be experienced?

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Can you use your mind to experience say an apple? That's why you are approaching this from the wrong place.

That makes no damn sense. We go from an almighty creator to an apple? I think your god might be a bit unhappy that you reduced him (her) (it) to an apple.

[calgarywinning]

Oh my god, I have to release the Pizza theory.

When you are born it's one giant slice. When you are four, it's four nice huge slices. When you are 20 the slices are still pretty good. When you are 45 the slices are getting so small. When you are 65 the slices aren't even worth eating.

Time is relative.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Roast Beef

I Agree 100% Experiencing god is not reasonable....

I'm using the word reason in the sense that reason can't get you to god.


Um... If he (and why do you think that god is a he? That's pretty messed up.) can't be experienced with the mind then why are there so many people claiming to know what "he" says? They always claim to know the "word" of god no matter their religion. Why do people claim to know the word of god if it can't be experienced?

He, she, whatever term you like. The word of god can be experienced. Your mind just isn't able to get you to this experience.





That makes no damn sense. We go from an almighty creator to an apple? I think your god might be a bit unhappy that you reduced him (her) (it) to an apple.

I'm trying to get across that an apple doesn't need the mind to experience it but you can touch it, feel it, see it and taste it.

answers in bold

[dissentowner]

Sorry for the delay on the next topic folks, poll option was not available due to taxing of server for draft weekend. Will put it up when I can.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm trying to get across that an apple doesn't need the mind to experience it but you can touch it, feel it, see it and taste it.

answers in bold

What? Where do you think touch, sight, and taste come from? Not the mind?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What? Where do you think touch, sight, and taste come from? Not the mind?

Yeah, not the mind. We have something more powerful.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, not the mind. We have something more powerful.

Then how do you explain people who have brain trauma that causes a loss of senses? Or simply were born without a particular one?

You're wrong.

[Roast Beef]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, not the mind. We have something more powerful.

I'm intrigued now. What do we have that is more powerful than the mind that gives us senses like touch, sight and taste?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Then how do you explain people who have brain trauma that causes a loss of senses? Or simply were born without a particular one?

You're wrong.

Could be but I tried to use the apple as an example that you need to see, touch and taste one to experience it. What we are really talking about and what I'm not wrong about is experiencing something more powerful than this mind . We need to feel it to know what it is.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Could be but I tried to use the apple as an example that you need to see, touch and taste one to experience it. What we are really talking about and what I'm not wrong about is experiencing something more powerful than this mind . We need to feel it to know what it is.

You fundamentally misunderstand how the brain works. In case you were away that day your teacher went over all this stuff in grade three, you may want to do some extracurricular reading.

If you don't want to read that, though, this is the first sentence google spit at me when I searched 'how does the brain work?'. Honestly, this is basic stuff.

Your brain contains billions of nerve cells arranged in patterns that coordinate thought, emotion, behavior, movement and sensation.

Anything you think, feel or experience happens in your brain. Without your brain, you don't have a mind.