How would you feel if the Flames signed Carlyle?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Babcock coached them to last place overall

With one of the worst NHL rosters ever assembled (as designed to finish last overall).

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by nik-

I think you're equating "most experienced" with "best" and that's not necessarily true.

That's fair, wish we could've just kept Hartley if these were the candidates.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

With one of the worst NHL rosters ever assembled (as designed to finish last overall).

True but I'm skeptical that this amounts to any progression seeing the majority players he got to buy into his system this season were fringe guys willing to do anything to keep an NHL job that won't be part of the group in the coming seasons.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Babcock coached them to last place overall

Standings are determined by talent.
No one is confusing the Leafs roster for even a 25th place roster. Certainly not with the "injuries" to JVR, Bozak, etc they faked as part of their obvious and dispicable tank job.

However Babcock managed to do something Carlyle couldn't - get the most out of his roster by not putting them in positions to fail.

He put Phaneuf in a position to succeed - the 2nd pairing in an offensive role.
He turned Gardiner's career around - as Phaneuf's babysitter.
He utilized Rielly's talent and strengths as a top pairing D instead of fearing his inexperience.
He exploited Kadri's strengths as a play driver.
He sheltered Bozak and JVR.

These little things led to a Leafs team that was actually playing like what I think Burke envisioned when he brought those players + Kessel in.

This is what it means to coach possession. It's not just about cycling on the perimeter... it's about not getting cycled on while passively praying for a flukey line change.

Possession is players, yes. To an extent.

But it is also systems + player usage. It's about trusting riskier players to make big mistakes less often rather than defaulting to simpler players who make small mistakes more often.

It is maximizing a defenseman with the capability of escaping a forecheck.

It is giving that defenseman more sensible options to pass to.

It is a commitment to pressuring the puck and turning it over instead of hanging back and "hoping" the puck lands on your stick.

It is a commitment to ensuring a suffociating neutral zone.

It is one-by-one line changes performed without a dump-give-away to "get the puck deep".

It is entering the offensive zone with a five man unit acting in unison.

We need a coach who's going to maximize Hamilton, Jokipakka, Kulak, Wotherspoon, Nakladal, Backlund, Bennett, Monahan, Gaudreau, Frolik. With the right systems, and with approporiate deployment.

If that's truly why they fired Hartley, then it can't be Randy Carlyle.

[Inglewood Jack]

awesome, hope you dropped that mic hard after you finished typing, GranteedEV

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

True but I'm skeptical that this amounts to any progression seeing the majority players he got to buy into his system this season were fringe guys willing to do anything to keep an NHL job that won't be part of the group in the coming seasons.

Well we could test that assertion by only looking at guys who were there in both the Carlyle and Babcock eras:



Stats score+venue adjusted, from corsica.hockey

It's safe to say that these individuals all found themselves defending less under Babcock than with Carlyle. I would assume, that's because he got them to buy into his system.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Well we could test that assertion by only looking at guys who were there in both the Carlyle and Babcock eras:



Stats score+venue adjusted, from corsica.hockey

It's safe to say that these individuals all found themselves defending less under Babcock than with Carlyle. I would assume, that's because he got them to buy into his system.

Some of those players are already ex-Leafs which goes back to my original statement that getting this group to buy in doesn't really equate to long term success seeing the roster is going to change considerably over the next two seasons.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Exactly, neither have I.

Whereby if Carlyle is hired (and citing Bingo's email above on how it goes against some of the comments already made about direction) - it will be the first time the idea might creep in.

Hypothetical at this point of course...

Ah. The way I read it seemed to imply that you had this leaning and the hire would only reinforce it.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by madmike

Not good at all.

I can see why they let Hartley go, but in my opinion Carlyle would be a huge step back. I don't want any part of him. He was brutal in Toronto.

Agree 100%
This would be a huge step backwards.