How would you feel if the Flames signed Carlyle?

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

There is no surprise that Babcock coached a much much worse Leafs roster to much better possession numbers.

I wouldn't want Carlyle involved in this organization in any capacity.

that is not an apples to apples comparison.

Carlyle was mandated to Win and get back to the playoffs, the team wasn't meant to be rebuilding.

Babcock was given the greenlight to fall as far in the standings as needed but preach possession.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by madmike

Not good at all.

I can see why they let Hartley go, but in my opinion Carlyle would be a huge step back. I don't want any part of him. He was brutal in Toronto.

2014-15 Leafs record:

with Carlyle: 21-16-3
w/o Carlyle: 9-28-5

[madmike]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

2014-15 Leafs record:

with Carlyle: 21-16-3
w/o Carlyle: 9-28-5

The Leafs, under Carlyle, were one of the worst defensive teams in the history of the league. Their shots allowed total in 2013-2014 was absolutely brutal and easily the worst in the league that year. That's not all on Carlyle, but he certainly didn't help the situation.

If the Flames are looking for a coach who emphasizes possession and defence-first, Carlyle is not that guy.

EDIT. In 2013-14, the Leafs gave up 2932 shots against. The league average was 2456. They were also dead last in Corsi.

[Huntingwhale]

Like anything in life, some people just slot in better at some jobs then other people. Some people are a better fit then other people. You might be a very good engineer, yet not fit in well at one company but hit home runs at another. It's not as simple as saying ''he did x job in Anahem/Toronto, therefore he will be this''. It doesn't work that way.

I trust BT when he says he will leave no stone unturned. If he truly feels in his heart that RC was the best fit, then I believe him. A lot of factors will be in play. The personnel on the team. The style. Special team. Etc. But if Randy Carlyle ends up being the best fit and BT feels way, then I have absolutely no problem with him getting the job, as long as it's determined that he was the best possible choice at that time.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

2014-15 Leafs record:

with Carlyle: 21-16-3
w/o Carlyle: 9-28-5

Well Hartley did one better as he won a playoff series. Carlyle's win/loss record doesn't change the fact that the underlying possession stats under him are the standard for terrible possession. Hartley got fired for poor possession stats and defensive play. That's what Treliving said. I get that you like your Jets allumni but trotting out Carlyle is going to be a tough sell to the media and fans after declaring that puck possession and team defensive play were areas you are looking to improve on with this hiring.

[CroFlames]

Maybe the Flames should pull a move like the Leafs and Coyotes and hire like some 19 year old junior B coach.

Progressive.

[Vulcan]

I'd like a veteran winning coach who doesn't need to learn on the job.

[Jets4Life]

I wonder if Dallas Eakins is available...

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

that is not an apples to apples comparison.

Carlyle was mandated to Win and get back to the playoffs, the team wasn't meant to be rebuilding.

Babcock was given the greenlight to fall as far in the standings as needed but preach possession.

?????

To not teach possession hockey is equivalent to teaching a losing strategy.

Whether a team is rebuilding or competing, possession structure should be preached.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

?????

To not teach possession hockey is equivalent to teaching a losing strategy.

Whether a team is rebuilding or competing, possession structure should be preached.

All i'm saying is Carlyle in Toronto, was in a position where expectations were to make the playoffs, and he was meeting that objective. The roster he was working with, didn't really allow for him to play a puck possession structure, yet he had the team wining. After he let go, the new regime tried to implement this possession structure and they were epic level terrible.

As a flame fan, i think this has been clear to us. How much were any of us complaining that Hartley has to be let go at any point last season where their possession was terrible? Heck, if the flames got avg or above avg goaltending this season, they would have likely been in the playoff hunt, would hartley still have been fired then?

people are making it seem like it's the coaches that are dictating poor puck possession, not the roster. If you don't have enough skill and depth on your roster, you won't be a positive puck possession team, and if you somehow are, you still ain't close to winning (see leafs).

[Ashasx]

New regime? You mean Peter Horachek?

Again, to be coaching a "non-possession" style because your team doesn't "allow" for possession hockey is completely flawed logic. Any group of players would be better off playing possession structure, regardless of the type of players they are. There is no excuse to not believe in possession hockey.

It's why Hartley only had one successful season in 4 years with the Flames.

[nik-]

Crap season

Drop down in draft

Hire Carlyle

"Not pleased" would be too mild a term.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

New regime? You mean Peter Horachek?

Again, to be coaching a "non-possession" style because your team doesn't "allow" for possession hockey is completely flawed logic. Any group of players would be better off playing possession structure, regardless of the type of players they are. There is no excuse to not believe in possession hockey.

It's why Hartley only had one successful season in 4 years with the Flames.

why were you not hollering for Hartley to be fired last offseason??

You are likely correct that you may not be an elite cup winning team if you aren't an upper echelon possession team. However, at the same time, teams/coaches will be productive and get into the playoffs with sub-par possession, and for many franchises that is a win in itself and an admirable result given the state of the franchise.

[Dr. Doom]

Thinking about this more...

What worries me most about this is not really so much having Carlyle as a coach.

As it becomes more obvious that Burke's influence on this team is more of an old boy's club, Treliving being more of a passenger.

[Buff]

Only 3 years in Carlyle's career his team wasn't in the bottom half of the league for goals against. Those three years were his first year in Anaheim, the 2nd (Cup championship) and the 3rd.

Those three years he had Pronger and Niedermayer. Then they dropped a bit in his fourth year. After that Pronger left and the team's goals against dropped even more and was horrible the year after that after Niedermayer retired.

On the flip side, his only sub .500 season was the year he was fired in Anaheim and later that same season took over as Leaf's head coach.

In 9 seasons as head coach he missed the playoffs 3 times. Once was when he took over the Leafs with 18 games remaining, but you could also consider his last season when he was replaced after 40 games.

He does seem to have some success, but his defensive record leaves a lot to be desired.

He does have a Stanley Cup as head coach, and somebody would say well, look, he had Pronger AND Niedermayer on defense and Getlaf, Perry and Selanne on forward. True, but you could also say that it shows he knows how to manage a team with great players.

If the Flames hired him I would be jumping off a bridge as some posters may feel like doing, but I would also not be jumping for joy that we have an experienced coach with a Cup ring either.

[Bingo]

Given the discussion from Treliving (end of season) and Burke (season ticket holder meetings) it would be an odd move given their push towards structure and possessing the puck.

So if they hire Carlyle that element would have to be explained in an interview. Can a coach say I like possession too but I wasn't allowed in Toronto? Can't see it. Didn't have the right players? Can't see it.

Treliving and Burke are intelligent enough not to hire the exact same guy (style)

So I would have to think interview one was a courtesy. Interview two is "would you have any interest in assisting a first time NHL coach?"

Because I think Carlyle and his bench experience, motivation would be a huge asset and something I'd get on board with.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I am with Pinder on this one, jump into traffic if he is hired.
Carlyle might be a decent coach, but with everything that BT has been preaching (possession, communicating with young guys, building a winning organization), Carlyle aint it.

[polak]

I'd wish Brian Burke wasn't ever part of this team.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Thinking about this more...

What worries me most about this is not really so much having Carlyle as a coach.

As it becomes more obvious that Burke's influence on this team is more of an old boy's club, Treliving being more of a passenger.

I have never once had this impression in Burke's time here.

[kukkudo]

Carlye won't be head coach here either he get a HC job somewhere else or becomes an assistant coach. Good example is Jacques Martin.