Justin Trudeau elbows NDP MP Ruth Ellen Brosseau

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I understand what you're saying. In my defense, my agreement with him on this particular is immaterial, what I'm objecting to is his entire approach to political issues, which I find grating. It's like 2Stonedbirds on anything that has anything to do with guns. I'm expressing my annoyance at the tendency, which Slava happens to perfectly personify.

If you're not annoyed by people who constantly behave this way, fine, but I sort of doubt I'm the only one who is. I think it's terrible for the political discourse.

On the other hand, trying to be logical and impartial isn't a curtain; it's something to strive for, no?

Absolutely, but it's also a label to hide behind without really saying anything.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Well, I never labelled myself as logical and impartial, though I try to demonstrate those traits, with varying degrees of success depending on the topic. But that's a de-rail.

[peter12]

Exactly.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I understand what you're saying. In my defense, my agreement with him on this particular is immaterial, what I'm objecting to is his entire approach to political issues, which I find grating. It's like 2Stonedbirds on anything that has anything to do with guns. I'm expressing my annoyance at the tendency, which Slava happens to perfectly personify.

If you're not annoyed by people who constantly behave this way, fine, but I sort of doubt I'm the only one who is. I think it's terrible for the political discourse.

On the other hand, trying to be logical and impartial isn't a curtain; it's something to strive for, no?

This isn't an argument, there isn't something substantive, it's a charicature you've created for a poster.

On this issue you agree with Slava, regardless of how he arrived at that conclusion. Sounds to me like a projection, like you can't bring yourself to admit you and this terrible poster with team-sport political mentality could arrive at the same conclusion as you. "How can someone so illogical arrive at the same conclusion as someone so logical?" Boggles the mind.

There's nothing wrong with the pursuit of logic but like anything else someone chooses to use as a club, me thinks thou dost protest too much.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

On this issue you agree with Slava, regardless of how he arrived at that conclusion. Sounds to me like a projection, like you can't bring yourself to admit you and this terrible poster with team-sport political mentality could arrive at the same conclusion as you. "How can someone so illogical arrive at the same conclusion as someone so logical?" Boggles the mind.

I mean, I never said any of this, and I don't think any of it, either, so it seems to me that it's you who's come up with the caricature. I came to my conclusion intuitively by watching the video and thinking about it for a few minutes, which seemed to me to be all the attention it warranted. Slava's reaction, in my view, was pre-determined by his bias.

The last bit in this paragraph doesn't even make any sense... on any issue where anyone comes to a conclusion through careful reasoning, it's not at all surprising that someone else could come to the same conclusion without applying any reasoning at all. That seems pretty obvious.

It also, again, seems like a big de-rail, but if you really want to litigate my approach to these or any other issues in here, I'm fine with that... but I don't think your criticisms of me so far have been on point.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I understand what you're saying. In my defense, my agreement with him on this particular is immaterial, what I'm objecting to is his entire approach to political issues, which I find grating. It's like 2Stonedbirds on anything that has anything to do with guns. I'm expressing my annoyance at the tendency, which Slava happens to perfectly personify.

If you're not annoyed by people who constantly behave this way, fine, but I sort of doubt I'm the only one who is. I think it's terrible for the political discourse.

On the other hand, trying to be logical and impartial isn't a curtain; it's something to strive for, no?


You're really not fooling anyone. At least, I am completely unconvinced. As I said, your responses on anything to do with federal politics are entirely predictable: you will take the most pro-Liberal-party stance on any topic that's introduced. Unless this is an internet persona and your postings don't actually represent who you are offline, this rings pretty hollow.

I'm not trying to fool anyone though, so of course my bias is predictable. I have no idea why that causes you so much grief, but what do you want me to do? It's weird that someone I've never met attaches so much significance to whether I have a bias though.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

It's actually precisely because it's the internet and we've never met - since I have no idea who you are as a human being, I'm disposed to see you as a trope. You're a quintessential example of a particular type of person that I find irritating in political discussions: the strongly opinionated, totally self-assured individual, whose position on any given issue was never in doubt.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

It's actually precisely because it's the internet and we've never met - since I have no idea who you are as a human being, I'm disposed to see you as a trope. You're a quintessential example of a particular type of person that I find irritating in political discussions: the strongly opinionated, totally self-assured individual, whose position on any given issue was never in doubt.

Ok great, I will try not to lose sleep over your thoughts. In the meantime feel free to put me on ignore because I'm fairly sure that no one opening this thread cares to read more about what you think of me as a poster or anything like that. I know that I don't.

[troutman]

Slava is the best human being. Would go fishing with.

[Zevo]

It's the people that argue ad nauseam about everything in just about every thread that are the most annoying. Slave doesn't take over threads, Corsi does.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Zevo

It's the people that argue ad nauseam about everything in just about every thread that are the most annoying. Slave doesn't take over threads, Corsi does.

I'm not sure you can put this one on me... I've repeatedly pointed out that this is all a big de-rail. I have no idea why my posts sometimes produce these results on here. If someone wants to try to explain this phenomenon, go nuts. Maybe I'm just bad at the internet.

[metallicat]

How can it not be on you? You replied to him, not the other way around. Anyways, you say it's a derail yet you continue to derail. Let it go.

Edit - I want to hear more crying over the actual elbow and manhandling, not this petty fight you're having.

[Jacks]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/just...logy-1.3589007
Third time is the charm, an actual admission and apology, now we can move on.

A repentant Prime Minister Justin Trudeau apologized Thursday morning for the third time in two days for a physical encounter with two opposition MPs that resulted in a melee on the floor of the House of Commons the day before. "I apologize to my colleagues, to the House as a whole and to you, Mr. Speaker, for failing to live up to a higher standard of behaviour. Members, rightfully, expect better behaviour from anyone in this House. I expect better behaviour of myself,"

"No amount of escalation or mood in this House justifies my behaviour last night. I made a mistake, I regret it. I am looking to make amends," Trudeau said on Thursday. "And I fully hear the desire... of a number of members across the House including the leader of the Official Opposition that we take concrete measures to improve the way the tone functions in this House and the way this govt engages with opposition parties as well," he said.

[Izzle]

Way OT, but this thread has the potential to be top 5 thread for 2016.

[burn_this_city]

Unwarranted take downs tend to create a bit of controversy. I might think a poster is a bit of a muppet, but typically I'll ignore their post rather than attempt to drown them in a wall of text. Not everyone has the time or ability to fashion a highly detailed response. Their perception of the issue might be correct, but sometimes things are lost in translation.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Anyways, you say it's a derail yet you continue to derail. Let it go.

Happy to.

Originally Posted by JT

I apologize to my colleagues, to the House as a whole and to you, Mr. Speaker, for failing to live up to a higher standard of behaviour. Members, rightfully, expect better behaviour from anyone in this House. I expect better behaviour of myself... No amount of escalation or mood in this House justifies my behaviour last night. I made a mistake, I regret it. I am looking to make amends. And I fully hear the desire... of a number of members across the House including the leader of the Official Opposition that we take concrete measures to improve the way the tone functions in this House and the way this govt engages with opposition parties as well.

Perfectly done. There's actually no way to continue this drama after that apology and not appear petty.

... So we can expect Mulcair's "that's not good enough" response in due course.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I'm not sure you can put this one on me... I've repeatedly pointed out that this is all a big de-rail. I have no idea why my posts sometimes produce these results on here. If someone wants to try to explain this phenomenon, go nuts. Maybe I'm just bad at the internet.

Because you asked:

IMO, it's because you expend so much energy telling people how to argue and arguing for the sake of arguing.

We all have bias and anyone who repeatedly comes to issues in a certain way becomes trope-like (you aren't excused from this).

Arguing about everything is one thing but when you argue about arguing and logic and how people ought to converse, it's not fun or interesting. I would say 99% of people are on here to have fun, take a break from work, talk about hockey and maybe a few issues, etc. What value is there then in getting so hung up in criticising everyone all the time?

Sometimes it just seems like you have nothing to argue about, so you say "I'm going to take issue with how they came to their opinion!" It's not great.

[RyZ]

I dont care much about the act itself. I dont think it was that bad and some people should just man up a bit here.

The issue I take is that if roles were reversed and Harper had done the exact same thing the media outcry would be 10x more intense. We would hear nothing but how Harper is a bully and unprofessional and they would be calling for his immediate resignation.

But its not, its Trudeau and the Liberals and it cant be swept under the MSM rug quickly enough.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by RyZ

But its not, its Trudeau and the Liberals and it cant be swept under the MSM rug quickly enough.

You're absolutely right that if Harper had done this instead of Trudeau, the reaction would be an order of magnitude worse.

But on this point, I don't agree. Four of the top five most read stories on Liberal Party mouthpiece CBC this morning were about this incident, and two of them were opinion pieces critical of Trudeau.

[Minnie]

Harper could barely stand to touch his own children in public, so it's not highly likely he'd have made an effort to cross the floor and touch an MP. But, if he had done this, it would be just as stupid as Trudeau doing it and the hue and outcry would have been just as stupid as this hue and outcry.