[News] Head coach Bob Hartley fired; Associate coach Jacques Cloutier not returning

[dammage79]

Nvm

[Caged Great]

Hartley was able to maximize the player's strengths and accentuate them. This is shown by the Flames having half the roster having career seasons. Unfortunately, good stats do not make the team good. Having half the team playing like a contender and the other half playing worse than Stockton is a recipe for a better lotto pick.

The Flames should by all rights be headed into contender mode, and they fell flat. Not all of that is on Bob, and I do not agree with the move. The Flames also need to be careful with who they replace him with and how often they replace coaches, otherwise the players may begin to feel as if they are above the team like what happened with the previous group of players prior to the rebuild, or what happened up north with Hall/Eberle/RNH/Yakupov/Schultz.

I think the likeliest contenders for the job are Carlyle and Boudreau, both of whom would be adequate. Not really sure if they would be good. I'm not really a fan of the style of play of most of the coaches that are available at the moment.

Best of luck to Bob Hartley, he will not be out of a job for long. Like Paul Byron, I expect him to find a good home in Montreal.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

8 division titles in his 8 full seasons as head coach is pretty special.

A coach who has a habit of losing game 7's at home and no Cups on his record is not all that special to me. He had some great teams but failed to get the job done. I want a coach that can get us to the promised land.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Dion

A coach who has a habit of losing game 7's at home and no Cups on his record is not all that special to me. I want a coach that can get us to the promised land.

Agreed, but how about we win our division 8 years straight before worrying about whether we can make it over the hump or not. I can live with that sort of "disappointment".

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by dammage79

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...-isnt-hartley/

As much as I think Francis is a hack, it sounded to me more like that question as presented as an opportunity for Monahan to shut it down - not as a serious question with any kind of ill intent.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Dion

A coach who has a habit of losing game 7's at home and no Cups on his record is not all that special to me. I want a coach that can get us to the promised land.

So you want Babcock, Sutter or Quenville only? Gotcha


Would you have not hired those guys before they won the cup?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Absolutely.

Unique Team Traits: The Duck's D-Zone discipline led to O-Zone opportunities

Yes please.

My biggest issue with this team the last two seasons has been our breakouts.

With our talented, mobile, d-core we shouldn't have nearly had the trouble that we did have getting the puck out of our zone.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Well, count me in as shocked that this happened today. I don't see the Flames as contenders this year, and thought Hartley actually had most of next season to turn the team around.

There are 2 basic things that I am upset about in regards to losing Hartley today:

1) He was a developmental coach. Remember, teams lauded him for the last 2-3 years for how much time he took in practice in actual 'teaching'. He ran practices harder than perhaps any other coach in the league, but continually would pull players out to teach them. That means a lot to a young team. I thought he was absolutely perfect because he held them both accountable, but would actually teach them as well. I actually think that is going to be difficult to replace.

2) When I look at the Calgary Flames, I don't see a contender yet. I don't see anything more than a bubble-team right now - but I see loads of potential. What I am more concerned about in regards to this team (and I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet either) is that the 'core' young guys seem to be coming along rather well. I would say better than expected. How many had career years? Work ethic is there for them too, which is just as important. Bennett not putting up points? Well, Hartley made sure he was playing the right way and the points came. Stuff like that is huge, IMHO, for a young developing team.

I think Treliving is just taking the opportunity to replace Hartley this year with someone who he feels is a better fit. I am not sure that he can find a 'better fit' so to speak - not until the Flames get beefier. I actually think Hartley has made the most out of the type of team he has been given. Everything is created off the rush (way more than the long stretch passes by the way). This is still not a team that can cycle. With that in mind, I don't hate Hartley's system.

Defensively, yes, I think it could have used more work without question. Again, we have to look where it collapses. Is it because other teams are generating off the cycle? Not always, but the Flames seem to be almost helpless when the big teams come in and cycle the puck in the Flames' zone. I don't think that a new defensive system is going to solve that particular issue. There were a number of times that defensively they were just completely out of position.

I thought Hartley would stick around for another year at least (if the team did poorly again, he would be removed - lame duck or not), and if they did well, he would be re-signed for another 2 year period. I think at that point one can realistically expect the Flames to start competing. I thought that Hartley would have been given one of those competing years before the Flames showed a lack of patience, which I think would be fair. Surprised it came today.

It just leads me to believe that it is a combination of not liking the defensive system Hartley employs - I am sure a more defensive-oriented coach can come up with a better defensive system for sure. I am just not sure he can do that without neutering the Flames' offence - they generate so much from the backend.

I do think that Treliving might be seeing this off-season as the right time to move on from Hartley. Burke seemed to really like Hartley - I think Burke supported Hartley actually. Treliving always seemed a bit more luke-warm to him, which is fine. With LA out, Anaheim out, and if St. Louis loses this round (or even next), this off-season MIGHT prove to have a number of very experienced coaches who are more of the 'defensive' types. I believe that Treliving doesn't have anyone in particular in mind - I just think that a combination of not liking Hartley's system, and with Boudreau and some other coaches already available, plus the possibility of some experienced and respected coaches available this off-season - there might be a better fit.

Still sad to see Hartley go. I don't really care if the players don't like the coach. This team has been rumored to be such a 'coach killer' team since Darryl Sutter left the bench, that I want Treliving to stick to his guns about whomever he hires.

I also think that teams benefit enormously from consistency in coaching. I don't agree with "These types of coaches wear out on players" or "have a short shelf-life". Please list some examples. Sutter is doing really well in LA, Hitchcock has been doing well in St. Louis. Babcock. Quenneville is about as hard-ass as they come. It actually seems more like the "Player's coach" have shorter shelf-lives - Bylsma for instance, if you really wanted to make that argument.

Teams just have to find the right fit for their team. I think based on the composition of the Flames, this is going to be a difficult search. Flames need to get bigger in a hurry.

[MacDaddy77]

Doesn't tippet have an out clause in PHX? Perhaps with maloney getting fired he's looking for something/somewhere else.

[Street Pharmacist]

I am honestly shocked there are so many Hartley supporters with the results in the ice

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Dion

A coach who has a habit of losing game 7's at home and no Cups on his record is not all that special to me. I want a coach that can get us to the promised land.

The game 7 thing is misleading. He's also won a bunch of series in less than 7 games. And IMO Anaheim was never a cup favorite outside of maybe one year (and Washington never was).

But if it's only coaches that win cups that will do it for you, they can find Randy Carlyle wherever he is - the others all are currently working in the NHL as head coaches. I suppose maybe Trotts will be fired.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Agreed, but how about we win our division 8 years straight before worrying about whether we can make it over the hump or not. I can live with that sort of "disappointment".

I'm old enough to remember all the disappointments we had before and after winning the Cup in 89. Those were "hard to live with" considering the team Cliff Fletcher assembled.

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

Doesn't tippet have an out clause in PHX? Perhaps with maloney getting fired he's looking for something/somewhere else.

Rumours were that he was happy to stay in Arizona. He was supposed to be getting more power and responsibilities and would be working closely with the new GM on making major decisions. He won't get that with Burke and Treliving here. I don't think we need to worry about him coming here, he like us has a decent young roster down there in Arizona.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Dion

I'm old enough to remember all the disappointments we had before and after winning the Cup in 89. Those were "hard to live with" considering the team Cliff Fletcher assembled.

Yes they were but it's still the organization's all time top era which blows away any other era including the Sutter years.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I am honestly shocked there are so many Hartley supporters with the results in the ice

Some fans like Ramo and hope he's back. Some fans are results oriented and some get sentimentally attached.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I am honestly shocked there are so many Hartley supporters with the results in the ice

Likely comes down to perspective and expectation would be my guess. Two years ago, no one would have been shocked or upset with Hartley if we were told we'd finish in the bottom 5 this season.

So I guess it really depends on where people actually place the Flames in terms of where they are at in their development cycle, and what results you expect from a team in that position.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I am honestly shocked there are so many Hartley supporters with the results in the ice

Rebuild bro. And a playoff series win during said rebuild. Without their captain. Somehow he got 56 points from Dennis Wideman.

I do get the sentiment though, I thought the same thing when Brent wasn't renewed.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Some fans like Ramo and hope he's back. Some fans are results oriented and some get sentimentally attached.

There is absolutely no way that Ramo should be back after sustaining an injury like that.

This isn't Carey Price we are talking about.

The guy struggled mightily to just get to an average save percentage.

Perfect time to go in a different direction. UFA, coming off a major injury? No thanks.

[SuperMatt18]

Joel Quenneville would be the perfect example of a guy who overcame playoff disappointments to have success later on in his career.

Made the playoffs in his first 7 seasons with the Blues - but couldn't make it into the finals in a tough Western conference. The team became known for choking in the playoffs and not being able to get it done. Was in a playoff position when he was fired mid-season of the 8th year in St.Louis.

Went to Colorado and made the playoffs 2 out of 3 seasons - with 95 points in each season but couldn't get out of the 2nd round.

Then goes to Chicago and has 3 Stanley cups in his 8 seasons there.

Who know maybe Boudreau will have similar luck in his 3rd NHL stop and will turn around past playoff failures.

[bob-loblaw]

I just started reading so perhaps some of this was mentioned already.

I like Hartley but there have always been rumours about him being way too harsh on players, especially younger guys. If that's the direction we're going with some decent young talent then that can't happen. Plus I had the feeling that Bob and Treliving were at odds with the goalie situation more than what was let on. Then you throw in the fact that the special teams were especially horrible, even though that's probably moreso the assistant's fault, things couldn't have been a more opposite year than 2014-15.

The levers he pulled last year worked, and with raised expectations this year they weren't effective at all. Opposing coaches learned his system, adapted to it, and beat him. I think Johnny having such different stats on the road versus home kind of showed a weakness in tactics and weakness in the ability to adapt. Treliving also talked about possession and the team has never been 'that' team. After polar opposite years, who knows what could happen next year?

Maybe the Adams went to his head? Maybe Treliving was told that he himself has a year to straighten it out, and this was how he felt he needs to tune everyone in. Maybe Hartley is simply the fall guy for CalgaryNEXT?

Anyhow, too bad to see him go but I think a fresh face will be good. Best of luck Bob!