CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Why does that football turf look like a big roll-out carpet? it even overlaps the running tack. Those look like the most disinterested fans i have ever seen, nobody wearing a jersey, nobody celebrating or engaged, a ton of empty seats and poor Ralph the dog looks like he's waiting for someone to put him out of his misery. so much wrong with that rendering. it's so bad it's actually really funny.

[btimbit]

The facility itself was never my concern, the location, timeline and funding is what I don't like

[getbak]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Why does that football turf look like a big roll-out carpet? it even overlaps the running tack.

If this gets built, that's what they'll likely do. Edmonton did it last year.

After years of chopping off the corners of the endzone for the running track: http://s3.amazonaws.com/medias.photo...2a_xgaplus.jpg

They finally squared off the corners, which overlap the track: http://medias.photodeck.com/0eb7eecb...16_xgaplus.jpg

[Strange Brew]

I have not ever seen a game live at Commonwealth but always thought it looked like an extremely nice open air stadium.

[Chingas]

I heard a small part of a Ken King interview on the fan.

Paraphrasing but, Ken says that we have put forward our proposal and we are working to promote it and show the positives realted to it. If someone else puts forward another idea the onus is then on them to do their due dillegence and present it to the Flames. IE. if the city suggests that the Flames build a new arena on stampede park and then renovate the Mcmahon stadium that the city should then be responisible to do a full proposal to present to the Flames. Then the hosts Kerr and ?? only responded with a "fair enough".

I can't wrap my head around this. Ken is saying "Next" is our plan and the only thing we are putting our effort into. And any other idea should be fully prepared and then presented to us (Flames) and we would then consider it.

I am sorry I really want to be on the Flames side on this for no other reason than my selfish desire to have an awesome football/soccer stadium and a new hockey rink. The reality is KK is continually coming off as entitled through his continued intimation that the whole project is for the city of Calgary and that he is just trying to help them out.

I'm sorry Ken this is your problem, and everyone else is helping you. Not the other way around. The sooner you start phrasing your communication and adjust your attitude accordingly the better this will all pan out.

My 2 cents.

[Bill Bumface]

^"Our plan sucks, so someone else make a new one for us"

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

^"Our plan sucks, so someone else make a new one for us"

No. ‘If you think our plan sucks, prove it by coming up with a better one.’

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No. ‘If you think our plan sucks, prove it by coming up with a better one.’

... and then give me the money to do THAT plan.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have not ever seen a game live at Commonwealth but always thought it looked like an extremely nice open air stadium.

I've watched a few U20 world cup games a few years back at Commonwealth and it was awesome. It feels like a big league stadium.... much nicer in my opinion than McMahon.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have not ever seen a game live at Commonwealth but always thought it looked like an extremely nice open air stadium.

It was pretty good for the two Grey Cups I attended there (2002 and 2010). Even when it's packed to capacity it's not too hard to get around the concourse and get a beer.

Now the Grey Cup at McMahon in 2009, while it was a great game to be at, was a terrible stadium experience. I was sat in those temporary bleachers which were obviously pretty bare bones, but also very hard to get in and out of your seat. It took me more than the entire halftime show to go to the bathroom, get a beer and return to my seat due to the concourse being so overcrowded.

[Tinordi]

Those are some highly leveraged charitable dollars if they factor into the argument over whether to spending hundreds of millions of public dollars to boost the revenues and profits of a private corporation. One might even ask which direction the charity is going?

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Chingas

I heard a small part of a Ken King interview on the fan.

Paraphrasing but, Ken says that we have put forward our proposal and we are working to promote it and show the positives realted to it. If someone else puts forward another idea the onus is then on them to do their due dillegence and present it to the Flames. IE. if the city suggests that the Flames build a new arena on stampede park and then renovate the Mcmahon stadium that the city should then be responisible to do a full proposal to present to the Flames. Then the hosts Kerr and ?? only responded with a "fair enough".

I can't wrap my head around this. Ken is saying "Next" is our plan and the only thing we are putting our effort into. And any other idea should be fully prepared and then presented to us (Flames) and we would then consider it.

I am sorry I really want to be on the Flames side on this for no other reason than my selfish desire to have an awesome football/soccer stadium and a new hockey rink. The reality is KK is continually coming off as entitled through his continued intimation that the whole project is for the city of Calgary and that he is just trying to help them out.

I'm sorry Ken this is your problem, and everyone else is helping you. Not the other way around. The sooner you start phrasing your communication and adjust your attitude accordingly the better this will all pan out.

My 2 cents.

What an absolute putz
This would go so much better if someone competent was in charge, and if the local media was able to openly criticize KK (who are we, the Oilers??)

[PeteMoss]

Maybe the Flames should hire the Atlanta Braves to show them how to get funding for this place, they've seem to have made it a new revenue stream for themselves - http://www.bloomberg.com/features/20...raves-stadium/

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Maybe the Flames should hire the Atlanta Braves to show them how to get funding for this place, they've seem to have made it a new revenue stream for themselves - http://www.bloomberg.com/features/20...raves-stadium/

Basically threat re-location is what you're saying.

[OffsideSpecialist]

Now it's a race, Who will get a new arena first? Calgary or Ottawa?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...-bid-1.3555832

[Flamenspiel]

I am not sure but it seems to me that the city did not come forward with a firm "No". They waffled a bit in saying they still may do a clean up. At least it seems as if Ken has taken it as such.

Perhaps the mayor just needs to firm that up and then the Flames can decide on actually paying for it, a plan B, or a relocation.

[East Coast Flame]

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

It was pretty good for the two Grey Cups I attended there (2002 and 2010). Even when it's packed to capacity it's not too hard to get around the concourse and get a beer.

Now the Grey Cup at McMahon in 2009, while it was a great game to be at, was a terrible stadium experience. I was sat in those temporary bleachers which were obviously pretty bare bones, but also very hard to get in and out of your seat. It took me more than the entire halftime show to go to the bathroom, get a beer and return to my seat due to the concourse being so overcrowded.

Eh, the Women's soccer last year at Commonwealth was a gong show. It took over 45 minutes to get a beer at half time. It was insane.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by OffsideSpecialist

Now it's a race, Who will get a new arena first? Calgary or Ottawa?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...-bid-1.3555832

Now that's how you sell something to a city. Start with the city and community plan in mind first and the arena second.
http://www.ncc-ccn.gc.ca/sites/defau...ebreton-bi.pdf

And I don't mean using prettiness or fancy renders. I mean actually thinking about the city and community first.

[Mr.Coffee]

Why on earth would it be up to anybody else to show the Flames a better option? Makes absolutely no sense. And what an arrogant, ridiculous thing to say. It kind of shows how out to lunch King and possibly other Flames management types are, and where their head space is.

To re-cap:
1. Private business proposes to city to fund large portion of a private business want.
2. City criticizes said proposal due to haphazard approach, but says it will work with private business, but overall has alternate plans for the land in the proposal. Recommends other alternatives.
3. Private business remains steadfast to original bush league proposal and then publicly states 'well if you don't like it show us what you want instead'?

What are they supposed to hire architects and do the renderings too? Construct it? Do YOUR job?

Then there's people defending charitable contributions as to why the owners are somehow validated to fleece the city in a business deal so one-sided for one group it's not even funny? Charitable donations using Flames season ticket holder money to capture the tax incentives and look good using other people's money to donate?

I donated some money to a charity last year, can I have a new house? I mean come on I'll put in at least 30% of the value for the new house. You pay 70%.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So you're going to compare Calgary ownership to a guy that Florida considers to be the plague?

I think you're making my point more than his.

No, my point is that ownership/sports teams who donate to charities in the city does not mean they have the best interests of the City or their citizens at heart.

You continue to rely on the Flames contributions to the city to justify the spending when that is purely irrelevant.