2015/2016 Trade Speculation and Rumors v2

[bax]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Fleury (if available)
Bishop
Andersson

---

Tweeners who could steal the show

Raanta
Vasilievski
Korpisalo

My knock on Murray is there have been a few guys who have stepped up when coming into the league as the starter in the playoffs..

See: Tokarski, Hammond.

The difference with Murray and those guys is that Murray absolutely dominated the AHL already and teams took notice of his ability. If you believe Friedman, the Flames were already asking about Murray before he was even in the NHL.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Fleury (if available)
Bishop
Andersson

---

Tweeners who could steal the show

Raanta
Vasilievski
Korpisalo

My knock on Murray is there have been a few guys who have stepped up when coming into the league as the starter in the playoffs..

See: Tokarski, Hammond.

List your list except Raanta, he sticks out like a sore thumb there. Small, career backup. I don't think he has any starting potential at all. I do like the rest of your list though.

[IgiTang]

I agree Raanta is small, and the era of the small goalie is nearing its end. Especially if equipment is size is being reduced. Could expose Raanta quite a bit. So, you're prolly right in that he isn't the direction the Flames should be going.

This goalie acquisition has to be the right one for the Flames. I don't think k the team can afford to be throwing $#!+ at the wall and seeing what sticks.

The Flames need a goalie of the future who can and will take this team to the next level.

If the Flames spend the next 2-3 years trying to figure this out, it could hurt the team development as a whole.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

List your list except Raanta, he sticks out like a sore thumb there. Small, career backup. I don't think he has any starting potential at all. I do like the rest of your list though.

? Raanta is pretty much the same size as Jaroslav Halak, Tim Thomas, Jonathan Quick.

He's understudied under two of the best goalies in the world in Corey Crawford and Henrik Lundqvist.

During his age 25/26 seasons, he's posted a .925 SV% over 42 games. He played on teams that were statistically 9th and 19th in scoring chance suppression, respectively.

It's fair to not want Raanta due to perceived attitude problems.
It's fair to be skeptical of any backup being a starter.
But to think he has no starting potential? A little bit crazy.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Fleury (if available)
Bishop
Andersson

---

Tweeners who could steal the show

Raanta
Vasilievski
Korpisalo

My knock on Murray is there have been a few guys who have stepped up when coming into the league as the starter in the playoffs..

See: Tokarski, Hammond.

Hammond had a terrible playoff last year after his legendary regular season.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

? Raanta is pretty much the same size as Jaroslav Halak, Tim Thomas, Jonathan Quick.

He's understudied under two of the best goalies in the world in Corey Crawford and Henrik Lundqvist.

During his age 25/26 seasons, he's posted a .925 SV% over 42 games. He played on teams that were statistically 9th and 19th in scoring chance suppression, respectively.

It's fair to not want Raanta due to perceived attitude problems.
It's fair to be skeptical of any backup being a starter.
But to think he has no starting potential? A little bit crazy.

Hmmm he does seem to be listed at 6'0 whereas I thought he was 5'10.
Anyways I haven't seen him a ton but nothing in what I've seen had me thinking starter material. He looks small in the net IMO and gives me no confidence. There's a long list of goalies I'd rather go after than Raanta.

There's backups that have starting potential and backups that don't. I just happen to think Raanta is one of the latter. Yes he's put up good numbers on fairly good teams and played behind some good goalies but that still doesn't give me confidence he could be a starter.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

He looks small in the net IMO and gives me no confidence.

Who cares? If he stops pucks that's the only thing that matters.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

There's backups that have starting potential and backups that don't.

How does one identify that? Your methodology seems based on nothing other than gut feeling.

He looks small in the net IMO and gives me no confidence.

He saves 92.5% of shots he faces the last two years. That gives you no confidence?

I mean among goalies to have played 2000 minutes the last two seasons, Raanta's SV% is fourth best in the NHL. His "Adjusted" SV% is even better (which shouldn't be happening if you're just a goalie just protected by team defense) - second best in the NHL over that span. Only Carey Price is ahead of Raanta in both Categories.

But it gives you no confidence.

...Just sounds...irrational.

Am I saying I expect him to sustain his percentages as a starter? Prolly not.
Am I saying I expect him to sustain his percentages as a Flames goalie? Prolly not. See Talbot's drop from .926 to .918.

But I definitely have some degree of confidence that there is starting potential. To think there's zero potential for a starter just makes no sense. Sounds like the same logic that had Gaudreau fall to the fourth round.

Yes he's put up good numbers on fairly good teams

He put up "elite" numbers even for a backup, on an above-average defensive team (.936 on the 2015 Blackhawks, 9th in SCA60 and 18th in HDSC60), and very good numbers on a bad defensive team (.919 on 2016 Rangers, 19th in SCA60 and 24th in HDSCA60).

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Who cares? If he stops pucks that's the only thing that matters.

And IMO I don't think he'll be an above average NHL starter. I don't think he'll excel at stopping pucks if he's relied on as the main goalie.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

How does one identify that? Your methodology seems based on nothing other than gut feeling.

I don't claim to be a pro goalie scout. I haven't seen Raanta a ton but in the games I've watched him he didn't look like anything more than a backup.

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

He saves 92.5% of shots he faces the last two years. That gives you no confidence?

I mean among goalies to have played 2000 minutes the last two seasons, Raanta's SV% is fourth best in the NHL. His "Adjusted" SV% is even better (which shouldn't be happening if you're just a goalie just protected by team defense) - second best in the NHL over that span. Only Carey Price is ahead of Raanta in both Categories.

But it gives you no confidence.

...Just sounds...irrational.

Am I saying I expect him to sustain his percentages as a starter? Prolly not.
Am I saying I expect him to sustain his percentages as a Flames goalie? Prolly not. See Talbot's drop from .926 to .918.

But I definitely have some degree of confidence that there is starting potential. To think there's zero potential for a starter just makes no sense. Sounds like the same logic that had Gaudreau fall to the fourth round.

He put up "elite" numbers even for a backup, on an above-average defensive team (.936 on the 2015 Blackhawks, 9th in SCA60 and 18th in HDSC60), and very good numbers on a bad defensive team (.919 on 2016 Rangers, 19th in SCA60 and 24th in HDSCA60).

Yeah he has nice numbers on good teams. So have a lot of career backups. Jonathan Bernier looked like an elite goalie in LA (1.88 GAA and .922 SV% his last year there) backing up Quick and now in TOR? Not so much. Ben Scrivens fooled the Oilers into thinking he could be a starter based on how well he backed up in LA. Being a good backup in LA or NYR doesn't necessarily mean you'll be an above average NHL starter. The numbers don't really prove anything.

I'm not claiming to be a goalie expert or scout. I'm not claiming to have seen Raanta a ton. Just saying that in my fairly uninformed opinion on him I don't think he is more than a backup. Gut feeling? You bet it is, not ashamed to say it.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

And IMO I don't think he'll be an above average NHL starter. I don't think he'll excel at stopping pucks if he's relied on as the main goalie.

Why?

"looking small in net" is not a good reason when Quick and Lundquist, that's six of the last i dunno ten-twelve conference finals both play deep in their crease.

"being small" is not a good reason when Tim Thomas won two Vezinas and a Conn Smythe.

[dissentowner]

I would love Raanta as a backup to a Reimer or another more sure thing starter. Not confident though if he is the main guy.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Why?

"looking small in net" is not a good reason when Quick and Lundquist, that's six of the last i dunno ten-twelve conference finals both play deep in their crease.

"being small" is not a good reason when Tim Thomas won two Vezinas and a Conn Smythe.

Well not every guy who looks small in the net ends up as good as Tim Thomas do they? Most of them don't. It isn't that crazy to think Raanta isn't anything more than a backup. You don't like my reasoning that's fine, just drop it then. I don't think Raanta has a very good chance of being the next Tim Thomas. You do apparently? Great.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Yeah he has nice numbers on good teams.

The 2016 Rangers were not a good team. They were a team carried by goaltending. Period.

The 2015 Hawks were about middle of the pack defensively. Especially with their tire-fire third pairing bleeding quality chances.

So have a lot of career backups. Jonathan Bernier looked like an elite goalie in LA (1.88 GAA and .922 SV% his last year there) and now in TOR? Not so much.

L.A. was not a defensive team comparable to the 2015 Blackhawks or 2016 Rangers. The 2013 Kings were 4th in HDASCA60 (which is better than 18th and 24th) and 4th in SCA60 (which is better than 9th and 19th). You can't just point to every successful team and imply they were the reason their goaltending was strong. Sometimes goaltending is strong because of the team, sometimes goaltending is strong despite the team.

A good team comparable to the 2013 Kings? The 2016 Ducks. 3rd in HDCA60 and 3rd in SCA60. But you'd probably be ecstatic to bring in Andersen or Gibson, no?

And by the way, his last three years as a backup in LA, Bernier had an aggregate .915SV%. Bernier has a .915 SV% aggregate SV% as a Toronto Maple Leaf. You would not want a goalie putting up a .915 SV% as a starter? Bernier has had a poor year for sure, and the mental aspect of goaltending is a big part but overall there is nothing suggesting Bernier isn't a starter. Quality starters can have poor years. Devan Dubnyk has. Even Carey Price has. Bernier's body of work points to a starter.

If your worry is that Raanta who has better SV% as a backup behind average and poor defensive teams is no different than Bernier as a backup behind a strong defensive team... it's a misguided concern.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well not every guy who looks small in the net ends up as good as Tim Thomas do they? Most of them don't.

Most of them also never post a .925 SV% over a two season span. Top 4 amongst 2000+ minute played goalies over that span.

It isn't that crazy to think Raanta isn't anything more than a backup.

It is crazy. It's not crazy to be skeptical of his ability to handle a starter load. But it's crazy to be convinced he's only a backup.

I don't think Raanta has a very good chance of being the next Tim Thomas. You do apparently? Great.

I said nothing of the sort. Raanta doesn't need to be Tim Thomas to be effective. He can be the next Jaroslav Halak though. Another small goalie who has had a fine career as a starter.

I don't even want Raanta. His comments last year about the Blackhawks made me dislike him. But I'm just not letting that cloud my judgement.

[flamesforcup]

There are rumors that vanek might be bought out this summer. I wouldnt be opposed to bringing him in on a 1 year deal. Hes a RH shot winger who can score and could be a good fit on the top line.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Hammond had a terrible playoff last year after his legendary regular season.

Yup. That's exactly what I'm saying, without actually saying it.

Further to that, bot Tokarski and Hammond were essentially a flash in the pan

But good job!

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well not every guy who looks small in the net ends up as good as Tim Thomas do they? Most of them don't. It isn't that crazy to think Raanta isn't anything more than a backup. You don't like my reasoning that's fine, just drop it then. I don't think Raanta has a very good chance of being the next Tim Thomas. You do apparently? Great.

I think it'll be easier for you if just like Rannta now

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

There are rumors that vanek might be bought out this summer. I wouldnt be opposed to bringing him in on a 1 year deal.

Neither would I... but we won't have the cap space to spend much in free agency and if he were willing to sign for cheap he'll probably end up in Detroit or Chicago.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

There are rumors that vanek might be bought out this summer. I wouldnt be opposed to bringing him in on a 1 year deal. Hes a RH shot winger who can score and could be a good fit on the top line.

If we're looking at lazy super-talents who can provide a scoring punch on a 1-year deal. I'd call Radulov first.

[GioforPM]

I'd be a bit wary of stats when looking at backup who could possibly turn into number ones, because of the lower sample size and possible lower quality of opposition. Some backups with lesser stats have turned into quality starters and some who looked great and had nice stats did not.