Teachers work "really hard'.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't think it's parents in this thread, who actually care what goes on, that you would have to worry about. I would imagine dealing with parents who couldn't possibly care less what little Johnny did that day are worse. That and being sandwiched between parents and admin on a constant basis is probably soul sucking. Most teachers would enjoy the teaching, if only they could do that!

Going back to the late 60's and into the 70's the only time my parents took notice was when I got in trouble or when reports cards were sent home. One time I complained to my dad that the teacher rapped my fingers with the long wooden pointer stick for talking in class. His response was "Smarten up! You probably deserved it!"

[sun]

Originally Posted by Dion

Going back to the late 60's and into the 70's the only time my parents took notice was when I got in trouble or when reports cards were sent home. One time I complained to my dad that the teacher rapped my fingers with the long wooden pointer stick for talking in class. His response was "Smarten up! You probably deserved it!"

Did you deserve it?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by sun

Did you deserve it?

Of course I did! My dad wasn't interested in hearing that my fingers hurt and was more concerned that I was making the teachers job tougher. Teachers back then had more powers of discipline to keep us in line.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Teachers should be highly trained, highly paid. It should be a sought after position. It's such an important job.

Kudos to teachers.

Teachers in AB probably peak at $110-120k per year if you include the value of the pension. They also start around $60k.

So, its hard to argue they aren't well remunerated. Especially when you consider (1) the time-off (2) the bachelor degrees most teachers have (generally arts and science) aren't highly valued in the private sector (3) the fact that they're somewhat immune to the business cycle.

So, sure...its an important job. And its hard work. But it also comes with a pretty nice package. So, the question of "are they overpaid" has to take that all into context.

Im a big believe that teachers comp should be in line with (1) teachers elsewhere in the country, with a COL adjustment and (2) in line with similar work and hours in the private sector.

I have no idea what the answer to (2) is, but on the first issue - Alberta teachers are paid significantly more than teachers in other provinces. So, are they going to get a big raise when the province faces at $10b deficit. I doubt it.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Teachers in AB probably peak at $110-120k per year if you include the value of the pension. They also start around $60k.

So, its hard to argue they aren't well remunerated. Especially when you consider (1) the time-off (2) the bachelor degrees most teachers have (generally arts and science) aren't highly valued in the private sector.

I'm pretty sure the only degree all teachers have is a b.ed. It doesn't matter what your other degrees are. To teacher here you need a teaching degree which I'm pretty sure includes course work in math, science and humanities as well as whatever subject matter you choose to teach. The heavily prized degrees are no more valuable when it comes to the skills required to teach the most basic subject matter. Nor do they include a guarantee of being well rounded.

[calgarywinning]

Originally Posted by Dion

Of course I did! My dad wasn't interested in hearing that my fingers hurt and was more concerned that I was making the teachers job tougher. Teachers back then had more powers of discipline to keep us in line.

Conformity and falling in line was the methodology versus nurturing the individual which is today's. Curious which method is better. The natural world is all about conformity.

[Thor]

For me its always been not the exact amount of hours worked that matters when I think about the "hard" aspect of teaching, but for how much emotional investment and drain these people have to deal with when dealing with kids.

I can go to work, do my job, work OT, but like cops, EMTs, Doctors, Nurses.. Teachers have that added part of there job dealing with the multiple emotional issues that the kids bring with them to school, not to mention the added joy of dealing with the many wonderful parents who think their kid is super kid and nothing they do is wrong.

If someone offered me the same money I get now, with my 5 weeks paid vacation and offered me the exact same to teach, I would turn it down in a heartbeat. That job would just take too much on me emotionally since I'm a very empathetic person who would have a hard time leaving school without taking home with me that kid who's family is a mess, the kid who's got a single parent and can barely afford clothes, etc..

If anything I think we need to pay teachers more, like with our emergency services people.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Thor

For me its always been not the exact amount of hours worked that matters when I think about the "hard" aspect of teaching, but for how much emotional investment and drain these people have to deal with when dealing with kids.

These appeals to emotion aren't a good way to drive public policy. There are all sorts of important jobs I couldn't do. I couldn't be an air traffic controller. I'm sure it's highly stressful knowing that if you screw up, hundreds of people will hurtle to their certain and violent deaths. That doesn't mean they necessarily deserve to get paid enormous sums of money. Or that I'd be happy with collectively bargained agreements that saw airports shut down at noon every Friday so those vital and hard-working air traffic controllers could enjoy some relaxation and quality time with their families. We should compensate air traffic controllers well enough that you can attract and keep qualified people. Just like any job in the private sector.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Thor

For me its always been not the exact amount of hours worked that matters when I think about the "hard" aspect of teaching, but for how much emotional investment and drain these people have to deal with when dealing with kids.

I can go to work, do my job, work OT, but like cops, EMTs, Doctors, Nurses.. Teachers have that added part of there job dealing with the multiple emotional issues that the kids bring with them to school, not to mention the added joy of dealing with the many wonderful parents who think their kid is super kid and nothing they do is wrong.

If someone offered me the same money I get now, with my 5 weeks paid vacation and offered me the exact same to teach, I would turn it down in a heartbeat. That job would just take too much on me emotionally since I'm a very empathetic person who would have a hard time leaving school without taking home with me that kid who's family is a mess, the kid who's got a single parent and can barely afford clothes, etc..

If anything I think we need to pay teachers more, like with our emergency services people.

Ridiculous, as per Cliff's above. It's not like somebody said "We have this great job for you, it pays $100k and has 10 weeks of vacations. Do you want it?" "Yes" "Now that we have a contract, there is a little bit of a surprise.... Here are 40 devilspawn you must watch all day."

Like, I assume you know you are going to be dealing with kids when you ask to be admitted to B.Ed....

[Fuzz]

Ya, there are enough people that want to be a teacher and enjoy it to make up for those that don't. All my friends who became teachers had a lot of trouble finding a job out of University, so I'd say there is a surplus.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Ridiculous

Why is it that in every country its conservatives who have such a dislike for teachers.

[Sliver]

Believing teachers are already fairly compensated or perhaps overcompensated does not mean you dislike teachers. That should be obvious.

[kootenayguy9]

[2ArmBands]

I was always under the impression that teachers were not compensated well for their work... I remember my teachers in high school making jokes about how little they get paid etc....

Their lack of compensation seems to be common knowledge for everyone. I can recall talking with friends that went into teaching and they were well aware of what they were getting themselves into. In short, marginal pay but a great lifestyle.

I have a hard time understanding people that pick these careers with full knowledge of the compensation limitations and complain relentlessly once they are established.

[Mr.Coffee]

I'm actually ok if teachers are paid well. I think it's a tough job and they probably deserve it. Especially now that I have kids I have this perspective, I just wish it was a little more rewarding for the good, punishing for the bad is all. Makes no sense to have a system that breeds complacency, it literally isn't in the best interests of anybody (I'd argue even including the bad teachers that would get canned in a revised system, that'd be good for them).

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by 2ArmBands

I was always under the impression that teachers were not compensated well for their work... I remember my teachers in high school making jokes about how little they get paid etc....

Their lack of compensation seems to be common knowledge for everyone. I can recall talking with friends that went into teaching and they were well aware of what they were getting themselves into. In short, marginal pay but a great lifestyle.

I have a hard time understanding people that pick these careers with full knowledge of the compensation limitations and complain relentlessly once they are established.

This is not the exclusive domain of Teachers.

Get a bunch of lawyers together and count the minutes before one of them brings up their billable hours total.

Get a bunch of engineers in a room and count the minutes until one of them brings up a scheduled timeline at work.

Get a bunch of ditch diggers together and count the minutes until one of them brings up how deep their latest ditch was.

Get a bunch of athletes together and watch them go on strike about their compensation.

Get a bunch of billionaires together count the minutes until one of them brings up the taxes they paid last year.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I'm actually ok if teachers are paid well. I think it's a tough job and they probably deserve it. Especially now that I have kids I have this perspective, I just wish it was a little more rewarding for the good, punishing for the bad is all. Makes no sense to have a system that breeds complacency, it literally isn't in the best interests of anybody (I'd argue even including the bad teachers that would get canned in a revised system, that'd be good for them).

With smaller class sizes you'd have an easier time quantifying the impact of a good teacher or a bad one, making it easier to weed out the bad ones and reward the good ones.

When there's 35 ####heads in a room it's tough to get a sense who is contributing what.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I'm pretty sure the only degree all teachers have is a b.ed. It doesn't matter what your other degrees are. To teacher here you need a teaching degree which I'm pretty sure includes course work in math, science and humanities as well as whatever subject matter you choose to teach. The heavily prized degrees are no more valuable when it comes to the skills required to teach the most basic subject matter. Nor do they include a guarantee of being well rounded.

I know a lot of teachers and many of them took a degree prior to their B.Ed. Some have Math degrees, some English degrees, some Science degrees. I also know a fella that has a number of "tickets" prior to getting his B.Ed.

I don't know the specific course curriculum to obtain a B.Ed., but I do know that many teachers do have degrees other than B.Ed.

[chemgear]

I know a lot of people that had gym for 4-6 years, er kinesiology degrees prior to being a teacher.

[Hack&Lube]

Gross generalization but I see it like this:

Regular 40 Hour Work Week
40 hours / week x 49 weeks (factor ~3 weeks vacation/time-off) = 1960 hours a year

Teaching
48 hours / week x 41 weeks (factor 8 weeks summer vacation, 1 week spring break, 2 weeks Christmas vacation) = 1968 hours a year