[News] Drouin to return to Lightning AHL affiliate. UPD: Lightning recall Drouin

[bax]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The thing about "team dynamic" is that it is not all that relevant in the minor leagues. The AHL exists for the development and promotion of prospects. That development takes precedence. Sometimes, it takes precedence even over winning.



And that is even the case here where the AHL team is separately owned.



The Lightning made it clear that Drouin is welcome back. He's agreed to come back. The only thing that would hold him out of his team's next game is an honest lack of conditioning. There is no chance the team even considers holding him out as a further punishment.

This is a good point. In addition to this there is tons of movement in the minor leagues. Syracuse has already had 38 different players lace up for the team this year.

[sureLoss]

5g 1a -5 in the 6 games he has played since coming back.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

5g 1a -5 in the 6 games he has played since coming back.

Am I reading that right? 6 points in 6 games, a point/game, yet he's managed to be a -5 with all that?

Ouch. That's full Oiler

[codynw]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Am I reading that right? 6 points in 6 games, a point/game, yet he's managed to be a -5 with all that?

Ouch. That's full Oiler

Most of his points were probably on the powerplay.

[Huntingwhale]

The goalie was probably also out of position

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Am I reading that right? 6 points in 6 games, a point/game, yet he's managed to be a -5 with all that?

Ouch. That's full Oiler

I'm actually impressed with the almost goal a game clip. The +/- isn't something I overly care about especially in the AHL.

[Poe969]

+/- doesn't really matter at all at this stage, I mean the guy was never touted as a complete all around player. Drouin is a goal scorer and I think his job is to put up points, with the right kind of coaching and with the right leadership on the ice I think it would improve anyway.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Am I reading that right? 6 points in 6 games, a point/game, yet he's managed to be a -5 with all that?

Ouch. That's full Oiler

You know the guy has damaged his brand when he scores at almost a goal per game rate and people go "Did you see his +/-?"

[Geeoff]

Could he play for the Lightning in the playoffs? That would be a weird twist to this story.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Could he play for the Lightning in the playoffs? That would be a weird twist to this story.

Yzerman said publicily it is a possibility. Whether he means it or is just saying it for the media, only he knows.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Yzerman said publicily it is a possibility. Whether he means it or is just saying it for the media, only he knows.

I'm sure he would be made available, but much like last year its doubtful Cooper would play him.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I'm sure he would be made available, but much like last year its doubtful Cooper would play him.

If the Lightning found themselves down 3-1 in a series, they'd play him. That's the kind of position you get into and all bets are off.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Poe969

+/- doesn't really matter at all at this stage, I mean the guy was never touted as a complete all around player. Drouin is a goal scorer and I think his job is to put up points, with the right kind of coaching and with the right leadership on the ice I think it would improve anyway.

But wasn't the original issue with the coach that he wasn't making an attempt to be a little more rounded? Sorta Sven-like?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But wasn't the original issue with the coach that he wasn't making an attempt to be a little more rounded? Sorta Sven-like?

The difference is that Drouin is on another talent level than Sven. No other teams are expecting a player like Druoin to spend years developing two way play, that quite frankly they will rarely use. It's like when Tortorella had the Sedins killing penalties. The Sedins should be taking offensive zone starts and never killing penalties.

When it becomes apparent that you do not have the talent to consistently produce in a purely offensive role, that's when you need the two way game to survive.

I've stated it before, and I actually support Drouin in this. In a league where players hit their primes at 21 and start to fall apart at 26, a player like Drouin cannot afford to spend 2-3 years learning how to play on a 3rd line. Doing so is pure mismanagement.

The fact that it's Yzerman pushing this is even more baffling. Yzerman was given first line minutes in his first year in the NHL and the role of captain after 3 years. I'm not comparing Drouin to Yzerman, but Drouin's roughly .5ppg stats in his limited role surely warranted more exposure on the top lines and not 2nd and 3rd stints in the AHL.

[868904]

Originally Posted by blankall

The difference is that Drouin is on another talent level than Sven. No other teams are expecting a player like Druoin to spend years developing two way play, that quite frankly they will rarely use. It's like when Tortorella had the Sedins killing penalties. The Sedins should be taking offensive zone starts and never killing penalties.

When it becomes apparent that you do not have the talent to consistently produce in a purely offensive role, that's when you need the two way game to survive.

I've stated it before, and I actually support Drouin in this. In a league where players hit their primes at 21 and start to fall apart at 26, a player like Drouin cannot afford to spend 2-3 years learning how to play on a 3rd line. Doing so is pure mismanagement.

The fact that it's Yzerman pushing this is even more baffling. Yzerman was given first line minutes in his first year in the NHL and the role of captain after 3 years. I'm not comparing Drouin to Yzerman, but Drouin's roughly .5ppg stats in his limited role surely warranted more exposure on the top lines and not 2nd and 3rd stints in the AHL.

That sure worked out well for Phil Kessel. He's making millions, but do teams really want him? Are his teams successful?

You talk about Yzerman, yet don't seem to realize that he and the Red Wings went no where until he learned the 200 foot game. Yzerman has made all the mistakes in his own career, and all Drouin has to do is listen and learn.

Yes you are right, players with the talent of Drouin don't need to learn the 200 foot game, they can still make a decent living in the NHL, and there will always be some interest, but they will never be winners and never be the go to guy. They will be complementary pieces (like Kessel) as opposed to core pieces. The Lightning invested a 3rd overall pick on Drouin (and passed on Monahan) and want him to develop into a core piece, not a one dimensional complementary piece.

When you are young, you think you know it all, but the truth is, you don't. No one is born with experience and if you have someone who has been through it all and is willing to give you a headstart, you should probably listen. Drouin is an idiot, plain and simple.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

The difference is that Drouin is on another talent level than Sven. No other teams are expecting a player like Druoin to spend years developing two way play, that quite frankly they will rarely use. It's like when Tortorella had the Sedins killing penalties. The Sedins should be taking offensive zone starts and never killing penalties.

When it becomes apparent that you do not have the talent to consistently produce in a purely offensive role, that's when you need the two way game to survive.

I've stated it before, and I actually support Drouin in this. In a league where players hit their primes at 21 and start to fall apart at 26, a player like Drouin cannot afford to spend 2-3 years learning how to play on a 3rd line. Doing so is pure mismanagement.

The fact that it's Yzerman pushing this is even more baffling. Yzerman was given first line minutes in his first year in the NHL and the role of captain after 3 years. I'm not comparing Drouin to Yzerman, but Drouin's roughly .5ppg stats in his limited role surely warranted more exposure on the top lines and not 2nd and 3rd stints in the AHL.

No one wanted him at Selke level - just better. Most great players are pretty good two way guys. There are very few top level players who are crap defensively. Crosby is decent, Ovie is (when he wants to be), even Kane improved his d-zone play. Gaudreau has become pretty decent in his own end and at least tries hard. One dimensional players become Hall or Eberle or Kessell. To be effective in the NHL, you'd better develop some defensive awareness and effort.

Sven may not be Drouin, but your argument is exactly what Sven supporters were saying, right down to the ".5 PPG = top line".

[Calgary4LIfe]

I argue that with how the game has evolved, players that don't play a 200ft game are often liabilities out there even when they can generate offence.

In the 80's it wasn't a thing. Not many teams played strong defensive systems where all players were expected to contribute. The 90's changed that. It has been evolving ever since.

Now you have the top players in the league buying-into strong defensive games. Crosby. Ovechkin (yeah, even Ovechkin!), etc. Some of the more respected and thought of players have an excellent 2-way game - Kopitar, Toews. Even guys that are small and generate a tonne offensively - Kane, Gaudreau - work hard at their defensive games and aren't liabilities out there.

It doesn't matter how great a prospect is offensively. He has to fit into a team structured system or he becomes a liability. If for nothing else, the rest of the team will not buy-in as much if there are a couple of guys that aren't. Once again, see Ovechkin. That team is playing an incredible team-game that bodes very well for playoff success, and here is the most offensively gifted player in the NHL - someone who may actually be generational - blocking shots and skating back harder than he ever has.

With that being said, Drouin didn't look absolutely useless on defence. He skates back hard from what I have seen, though I assume a lot of it has to do with consistency (the toughest part to get young players to start doing). I think it is just a matter of time. As long as you don't start giving out premium ice-time based solely on offensive production, and actually make young players earn it, they will eventually start giving you more consistency in all areas of the ice.

If the Flames picked up Drouin, I wouldn't really be all that concerned about his defensive acumen. Gaudreau, Monahan and Bennett all come back hard and compete in the defensive zone. He would get it. Considering he would be on his 2nd team after forcing a trade, I would think he would be more receptive to another coach on another team in a different situation telling him what he needs to work on. Again, from what I saw of him in the NHL, he wasn't pulling an Eberle/Hall type of shift on defence.

Yzerman is 100% right in supporting his coach here. Tampa will never win a thing with that core unless they are all committed to playing sound defensively in their zone - just like any other team in the NHL. You simply can't win if your entire team doesn't pitch-in consistently on defence.

[saillias]

Not sure if this has been talked about recently but there was this sentiment earlier that Drouin would be redundant because of our depth at LW.

Not sure where that was coming from because we have one good player there, Gaudreau, and then the depth is about the same as the RW depth, if not worse when you go down org depth chart.

Positional need is not a reason to avoid Drouin.

[Erick Estrada]

Let's be honest in that a lot of the reason for Johnny's success is that Hartley has kind of let him do his thing. We see at times some bad turnovers and shifts when his line is hemmed in their own end of the rink but the benefits of unleashing him outweigh the negatives. I remember when Pierre Page was trying to get Fleury to play a 200 foot game and all it resulted in was Fleury's worst ppg season as a Flame and the beginning of the Flames 7 year playoff drought. Sometimes you just gotta let your most skilled guys play as its not like Druin's stats in the NHL depict that he's a train wreck defensively when he's I the ice. I feel there's a bit of a coach/player issue here not different than Hartley and Baertschi where they simply weren't compatible.

[polak]

Curious, people always warn people about "writing off prospects early" but honestly, how often does a grade A, blue chip prospect like Drouin stumble hard out of the gate and then end up living up to their draft day potential?

Seems like prospects that live up to their hype:
- Explode right off the bat and are immediately a force
- Start off well and take big steps in their first couple years

Do you often see players stumbling out of the gate for more than a season or two and then all of the sudden become that elite talent they were supposed to be?

Seems like the Sven Baertschi route is far more common for top prospects players who dont start of their career well. IE fail to live up to the hype, pressure starts mounting to perform, expectations lowered, either finds new diminished role or doesn't make the NHL.