[News] Proposed expansion draft rules. Expansion decision expected before 2016 draft.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Talk of leaving Giordano unprotected seems silly talk at this point to me. Why would we want to lose one of our best defensemen and our captain? Don't think we need to waste much time debating that topic.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by Toonage

100% agree the Flames would look more than foolish signing their Captain to a long term extension and then leaving him unprotected. People would/should be fired if that were to occur.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/n...s-trades-made/

Sending Sharp to a divisional rival was not an easy decision to make for Bowman, who’s had to move key pieces from his team several times in order to get under the salary cap.

“You can’t let yourself get attached. I mean that’s why, I maintain a good relationship with our players, but I don’t try to get too close to them because I think I’ve had to make more hard decisions than probably anybody,” said Bowman. “I’ve traded away so many good players that I’ve liked. Great guys, great players, young players and we’ve had to part ways with them.

“The only way it works is if you take the emotion out of it. It sounds cold but it is a business at the end of the day … if you fall in love with players you’re going to end up with a team that’s not achieving too much.”

Not saying I agree with Bowman and putting this in context of Gio. However, maybe this is how successful GM's have to constantly think regardless of the attachment we have as fans.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/n...s-trades-made/

He didn't just sign Sharp to an extension and Sharp wasn't the team captain.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

That 25% of previous year's payroll is stupid too. What if a team had a large number of expiring contracts? Would they be forced to expose a player because of an arbitrary number that they couldn't possibly plan for? Will teams be trading for players just to expose them down the road?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Unless we were to acquire another defenceman, or Jokipakka makes huge strides this year, we only really have 3 defenceman to worry about protecting.

7 forwards, 3 defenceman and a goalie?

I'm not too concerned as a Flames fan, at this point at least.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

He didn't just sign Sharp to an extension and Sharp wasn't the team captain.

We also aren't the Blackhawks. Their cap space is tied up in good players for the most part, so tough desicions had to be made, especially considering the extensions for Kane and Toews. Calgary's cap space is being monopolized by mediocre players for the most part. Apples and oranges.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

He didn't just sign Sharp to an extension and Sharp wasn't the team captain.

No he didn't but the Gio will be a couple of years into his extension at expanison. Sharp was an assistant captain albeit not captain but was an important leader on the team. All I'm trying to show is GM's are getting paid to make very difficult decisions often times it's not so simple. It's for the same reason we may have also hung onto a one Iginla for maybe a couple years too long. Heck it may not even be Gio that gets exposed, but I guarantee you there is going to be a player that we have to expose and were all going to be asking what the hell is Treliving thinking.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

No he didn't but the Gio will be a couple of years into his extension at expanison. Sharp was an assistant captain albeit not captain but was an important leader on the team. All I'm trying to show is GM's are getting paid to make very difficult decisions often times it's not so simple. It's for the same reason we may have also hung onto a one Iginla for maybe a couple years too long. Heck it may not even be Gio that gets exposed, but I guarantee you there is going to be a player that we have to expose and were all going to be asking what the hell is Treliving thinking.

He'll be one year into it. Starts next year.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Toonage

100% agree the Flames would look more than foolish signing their Captain to a long term extension and then leaving him unprotected. People would/should be fired if that were to occur.

Why? Was expansion and the ensuing process on the top of their heads when the deal was signed? I don't think so, it may have been a passing thought but not a prevalent one. I don't think anyone other than fans would consider it foolish if they decided it was in the best interests of the team to move on from Gio and what will likely be a boat anchor contract on the back 9 of it.

I don't think it is silly at all to weigh out the possibilities of Gio being left unprotected if the Expansion draft were to happen. I'd rather drop Gio than Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Hamilton and a handful of prospects.

All this will be figured out eventually. By the draft it sounds like. So when we know the final details of the process, I don't think it is unreasonable to consider all options in this circumstance. I just do not believe it is 100% a certainty that Gio gets protection from expansion.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

He'll be one year into it. Starts next year.

I stand corrected that's the general consensus it would be one year. Still doesn't take it off the table he'll be 34 and starting the 2017-18 season and making a tidy $6.75MM for 3 more years. Calgary4life still has a valid point Treliving has no easy decisions.

Point being we shouldn't fool ourselves GM's can not afford to fall in love with assets. So long as they are honest with the players, treat them with respect, the players know and understand this is a business.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Why? Was expansion and the ensuing process on the top of their heads when the deal was signed? I don't think so, it may have been a passing thought but not a prevalent one. I don't think anyone other than fans would consider it foolish if they decided it was in the best interests of the team to move on from Gio and what will likely be a boat anchor contract on the back 9 of it.

I don't think it is silly at all to weigh out the possibilities of Gio being left unprotected if the Expansion draft were to happen. I'd rather drop Gio than Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Hamilton and a handful of prospects.

All this will be figured out eventually. By the draft it sounds like. So when we know the final details of the process, I don't think it is unreasonable to consider all options in this circumstance. I just do not believe it is 100% a certainty that Gio gets protection from expansion.

I just feel that leaving your team Captain exposed, a year into his extension, is not only poor asset management but sends an equally poor message to the player and the team let alone the fan base.

Just my opinion, which could certainly change the closer we get to an expansion draft. But as noted, its sort of goofy to worry about this right now.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I just feel that leaving your team Captain exposed, a year into his extension, is not only poor asset management but sends an equally poor message to the player and the team let alone the fan base.

Just my opinion, which could certainly change the closer we get to an expansion draft. But as noted, its sort of goofy to worry about this right now.

It would be a disaster. Gio would probably go to LV, become their captain and be a general pain in our ass for 3-4 years while he was there.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

It would be a disaster. Gio would probably go to LV, become their captain and be a general pain in our ass for 3-4 years while he was there.

It would be a disaster, not just on the ice but from a public relations standpoint. The Flames would essentially be turning their backs on the team leader and a face of the franchise in the community. To the team they'd be saying that one of their hardest most respected workers wasn't worth even the consideration of being involved in moving him to a team/location of his choosing if they wanted out of the deal.

Now, if Gio phones it in next season and becomes a player he currently isn't to a shocking degree then maybe I will have a different opinion.

[MarkGio]

It would depend on other players. If two or more of Kylington, Andersson, Hickey, etc. are looking like they could be top 4 defenseman, then you have to consider making Giordano eligible for expansion draft. Or maybe it's better to simply trade him?

[Firebot]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NHL_Expansion_Draft

26 of the 28 teams existing in the league at the time of the draft were each allowed to protect either one goaltender, five defensemen, and nine forwards or two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards

Draft Results
# Player Drafted from Drafted by
1. Rick Tabaracci (G) Colorado Avalanche Columbus Blue Jackets
2. Jamie McLennan (G) St. Louis Blues Minnesota Wild
3. Mike Vernon (G) Florida Panthers Minnesota Wild
4. Frederic Chabot (G) Montreal Canadiens Columbus Blue Jackets
5. Dwayne Roloson (G) Buffalo Sabres Columbus Blue Jackets
6. Chris Terreri (G) New Jersey Devils Minnesota Wild
7. Sean O'Donnell (D) Los Angeles Kings Minnesota Wild
8. Mattias Timander (D) Boston Bruins Columbus Blue Jackets
9. Bert Robertsson (D) Edmonton Oilers Columbus Blue Jackets
10. Curtis Leschyshyn (D) Carolina Hurricanes Minnesota Wild
11. Tommi Rajamaki (D) Toronto Maple Leafs Columbus Blue Jackets
12. Ladislav Benysek (D) Mighty Ducks of Anaheim Minnesota Wild
13. Chris Armstrong (D) San Jose Sharks Minnesota Wild
14. Jamie Pushor (D) Dallas Stars Columbus Blue Jackets
15. Filip Kuba (D) Calgary Flames Minnesota Wild
16. Lyle Odelein (D) Phoenix Coyotes Columbus Blue Jackets
17. Radim Bicanek (D) Chicago Blackhawks Columbus Blue Jackets
18. Oleg Orekhovsky (D) Washington Capitals Minnesota Wild
19. Mathieu Schneider (D) New York Rangers Columbus Blue Jackets
20. Ian Herbers (D) New York Islanders Minnesota Wild
21. Artem Anisimov (D) Philadelphia Flyers Minnesota Wild
22. Jonas Junkka (D) Pittsburgh Penguins Columbus Blue Jackets
23. Geoff Sanderson (LW) Buffalo Sabres Columbus Blue Jackets
24. Stacy Roest (C) Detroit Red Wings Minnesota Wild
25. Darryl Laplante (C) Detroit Red Wings Minnesota Wild
26. Turner Stevenson (RW) Montreal Canadiens Columbus Blue Jackets
27. Scott Pellerin (LW) St. Louis Blues Minnesota Wild
28. Robert Kron (C) Carolina Hurricanes Columbus Blue Jackets
29. Steve Heinze (RW) Boston Bruins Columbus Blue Jackets
30. Jim Dowd (C) Edmonton Oilers Minnesota Wild
31. Tyler Wright (C) Pittsburgh Penguins Columbus Blue Jackets
32. Sergei Krivokrasov (RW) Calgary Flames Minnesota Wild
33. Jeff Nielsen (RW) Mighty Ducks of Anaheim Minnesota Wild
34. Kevyn Adams (C) Toronto Maple Leafs Columbus Blue Jackets
35. Jeff Odgers (RW) Colorado Avalanche Minnesota Wild
36. Dmitri Subbotin (F) New York Rangers Columbus Blue Jackets
37. Steve McKenna (F) Los Angeles Kings Minnesota Wild
38. Dallas Drake (RW) Phoenix Coyotes Columbus Blue Jackets
39. Bruce Gardiner (C) Tampa Bay Lightning Columbus Blue Jackets
40. Michal Bros (F) San Jose Sharks Minnesota Wild
41. Joé Juneau (C) Ottawa Senators Minnesota Wild
42. Barrie Moore (LW) Washington Capitals Columbus Blue Jackets
43. Darby Hendrickson (C) Vancouver Canucks Minnesota Wild
44. Martin Streit (F) Philadelphia Flyers Columbus Blue Jackets
45. Kevin Dineen (RW) Ottawa Senators Columbus Blue Jackets
46. Jeff Daw (C) Chicago Blackhawks Minnesota Wild
47. Jeff Williams (LW) New Jersey Devils Columbus Blue Jackets
48. Stefan Nilsson (F) Vancouver Canucks Minnesota Wild
49. Zac Bierk (G) Tampa Bay Lightning Minnesota Wild
50. Sergei Luchinkin (RW) Dallas Stars Columbus Blue Jackets
51. Cam Stewart (LW) Florida Panthers Minnesota Wild
52. Ted Drury (C) New York Islanders Columbus Blue Jackets


Too many people worrying about losing fringe prospects, that a lot of teams have better than the Flames. The rules are not that different from last time, and aside from Gillies, the Flames have pretty poor goalies. Look at a team like St. Louis, that has much more to lose.


Well...maybe losing Kuba was not the greatest thing . That was due to poor management at the time. I can't see the Flames holding on to veterans over prospects this time around.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

It would depend on other players. If two or more of Kylington, Andersson, Hickey, etc. are looking like they could be top 4 defenseman, then you have to consider making Giordano eligible for expansion draft. Or maybe it's better to simply trade him?

Post 194 in this thread by Calgary4life speaks directly to this exact point.

C4L does have long posts but very insightful thoughts. Were not saying we believe Gio is over the hill ship him out for spare parts. It's going to be difficult decisions in 2 years, and likely some unpopular decisions from a fan perspective.

Yes it's two years away and it maybe silly to think about these bridges now, but I guarantee you Treliving and Burke are planning a road map since Treliving got back from these meetings.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

It would depend on other players. If two or more of Kylington, Andersson, Hickey, etc. are looking like they could be top 4 defenseman, then you have to consider making Giordano eligible for expansion draft. Or maybe it's better to simply trade him?

So you'd entertain trading Gio or exposing him because Andersson, Kylington, and Hickey MIGHT become close to as good as him someday? That is assbackwards and silly thinking.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

So you'd entertain trading Gio or exposing him because Andersson, Kylington, and Hickey MIGHT become close to as good as him someday? That is assbackwards and silly thinking.

No need to include your last sentence if someone doesn't think exactly the way you do we don't need to call their thoughts assbackwards or silly.

I read MarkGio doesn't have a crystal ball and Andersson, Kylington, Hickey or heck a player not thought of yet has made a case to be top 4 pushing top 3 in two years time. MarkGio doesn't have a crystal ball no more than you have one FDW.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

I stand corrected that's the general consensus it would be one year. Still doesn't take it off the table he'll be 34 and starting the 2017-18 season and making a tidy $6.75MM for 5 more years. Calgary4life still has a valid point Treliving has no easy decisions.

FYP.

The only reason Gio would be considered is if he plays awful next year...and in that case I'm not sure an expansion team would want him for 5 years at that money unless they need it to make the floor.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

No need to include your last sentence if someone doesn't think exactly the way you do we don't need to call their thoughts assbackwards or silly.

I read MarkGio doesn't have a crystal ball and Andersson, Kylington, Hickey or heck a player not thought of yet has made a case to be top 4 pushing top 3 in two years time. MarkGio doesn't have a crystal ball no more than you have one FDW.

If the situation is far different when and if expansion happens than MAYBE talk of trading or exposing Gio becomes something other than silly talk or assbackwards. But based on what we know right now? It's absolutely stupid. Gio is a top 20 defensman in this league and our captain. You don't expose a player like that, that's boneheaded stupid. Talk of trading him to make room for prospects? Less stupid but pretty silly. We don't even know if Andersson, Kylington or Hickey will even make the NHL. To suggest they could replace a top 20 defensemen in the NHL and our captain within 2 years is silly.

I'm not calling the poster stupid. The idea certainly is silly and stupid to me. If people can't handle criticism of their ideas then this isn't the place to be debating them.