16/17 Goalie Situation

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

$6 million seems mighty steep.

That would be a cap hit similar to Holtby, Crawford and Miller. $4.5 should be the max - Neimi/Halak (we'll ignore Hiller). Mason just got $4.1M last summer, Dubnyk $4.3M

Yeah, I guess I was high at 6.0M. The thought was overpay in order to cut the term below 4 years, but even considering that, 6.0 is likely 0.5-1.5 too high.
Though, I do think Reimer is better than Niemi and Halak.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

$6 million seems mighty steep.

That would be a cap hit similar to Holtby, Crawford and Miller. $4.5 should be the max - Neimi/Halak (we'll ignore Hiller). Mason just got $4.1M last summer, Dubnyk $4.3M

I agree. Damn Oilers devalued what $6M should mean. To me it should be a proven top 15 or better goalie, maybe top 10.

[The Fonz]

Maybe I'm delusional. I believe James Reimer is a great goaltender, and with him only coming into his prime and finally getting away from Toronto, I expect him to be a top 10 goaltender in the league for the next 5+ years. His injuries do make me nervous though.

Like I said... Maybe I'm delusional when it comes to Reimer. I can see that others don't value him as highly as I do.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Maybe I'm delusional. I believe James Reimer is a great goaltender, and with him only coming into his prime and finally getting away from Toronto, I expect him to be a top 10 goaltender in the league for the next 5+ years. His injuries do make me nervous though.

Like I said... Maybe I'm delusional when it comes to Reimer. I can see that others don't value him as highly as I do.

If he is ready to be that guy then it's a great opportunity to buy low

[dying4acup]

Reimer has trouble staying healthy. How many times has he played 50 games?

Reimer has lost his job(and won it back a few years later).

How much history does reimer have as a #1? His first year and this year.

He's lucky to get 2yr/8m (total)

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Yeah, I guess I was high at 6.0M. The thought was overpay in order to cut the term below 4 years, but even considering that, 6.0 is likely 0.5-1.5 too high.
Though, I do think Reimer is better than Niemi and Halak.

You're crazy. Niemi has a cup. I think Halak is better too (against the Flames at least)

[Dr. Doom]

The issue with Reimer is two fold:

1. He has trouble staying healthy.
2. He's only a "cusp" starter.

... meaning I wouldn't say he's a backup but to be a regular starter will show his flaws as well. The guy is right on the cusp and has been as long as I've watched him subject here in Leaf land. He can be lights out but other times you want to wrangle him for soft and very untimely goals.

If he's requesting starter money over extended time, let someone else make that mistake.

What worries me is that Burke always stood by Reimer he may have a thing for him...

[Demetric]

with the possible expansion (apparently will know if will be for 2017 season before draft this year) and only able to protect 1 goalie, this might open a few more doors with teams like PIT that have a good young goalie looking to break out. might be able to get a good young or good veteran goalie

[TheScorpion]

Marc-Andre Fleury would be a really nice addition to this team. Brian Eliott, too.

[Bingo]

Goalie Guru Greg Balloch chimes in with the change in goalie prospects towards the smaller goaltender.

Will be interesting to see how equipment impacts the position.

http://ingoalmag.com/features/goaltender-size/

[Bingo]

and here is is prospect rankings by conference

https://twitter.com/GregBalloch/stat...952960/photo/1

You may notice Gillies a ways up the list from that guy in Edmonton.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I think Reimer and Enroth are likely the best of that lot. Still not sure either is a true no. 1, which needs to be the focus, IMO.
Unless there is a blockbuster deal for a Fleury type, they shouldn't pay more than the $4.5mm they gave Hiller (and Enroth should be considerably cheaper).

[GKDarts]

I posted this a few weeks back in the "Trade Speculation" thread. Probably a better fit here.

With all the talk of paying up for a goalie, I had a look at the last 15 years at what could be had at a "reasonable" price in the goalie market. I kept it to goalies that played a minimum of 25 games in the year and were top 10 in save percentage in the league. In order to gauge the "flash in the pan factor" I then looked at how they performed with their team in the years that followed. I deemed an above average year to be a save percentage >.912 and a minimum of 25 games played. I limited the list to guys that were performing with teams other than those they had originally broken into the league with. Hardly scientific, but a good indicator that you can find long term quality every year, without paying much for it. Interesting too that in terms of "above average years" Kipper was only 5 for 9.

· 2000/01 Manny Fernandez SV .920 5/6 seasons above average: 2000-Jun-12 Traded from Dallas Stars with Brad Lukowich to Minnesota Wild for round 3 pick in the 2000 draft (Joel Lundqvist) and round 4 pick in the 2002 draft
· 2001/02 Sean Burke SV.920, 4/5 seasons above average: 1999-Nov-18 Traded from Florida Panthers with round 5 pick in the 2000 draft (Nate Kiser) to Phoenix Coyotes for Mikhail Shtalenkov and round 4 pick in the 2000 draft (Chris Eade)
· 2001/02 JS Giguere SV.920, 7/9 seasons above average: 2000-Jun-09 Traded from Calgary Flames to Anaheim Mighty Ducks for round 2 pick in the 2000 draft (Matt Pettinger)
· 2002- 2004 D. Roloson SV .927/.933 3/4 seasons above average: 2000-Jun-23 Claimed in expansion draft by Columbus Blue Jackets from Buffalo Sabres
· 2003/04 M. Kiprusoff SV.933 5/9 seasons above average: 2003-Nov-16 Traded from San Jose Sharks to Calgary Flames for conditional pick in the 2005 draft
· 2005/06 Cristobal Huet SV .929 3/3 seasons above average: 2004-Jun-26 Traded from Los Angeles Kings with Radek Bonk to Montreal Canadiens for Mathieu Garon and round 3 pick in the 2004 draft (Paul Baier)
· 2005/06 Tim Thomas SV .917 6/7 seasons above average. 2002-Aug-08 Signed by Boston Bruins as free agent
· 2007/08 Ilya Bryzgalov SV .920 3/4 seasons above average. 2007-Nov-17 Claimed off waivers by Phoenix Coyotes from Anaheim Ducks
· 2008/09 Craig Anderson SV. 924 6/7 seasons above average therafter with Panthers/Avs/Sens. the Blackhawks traded Anderson to the Florida Panthers for the Panthers sixth round draft pick in the 2008 NHL Entry Draft.
· 2009/10 Tuukka Rask SV .931 7/7 seasons above average. 2006-Jun-24 Rights traded from Toronto Maple Leafs to Boston Bruins for Andrew Raycroft
· 2010/2011 Antti Niemi SV .920 5/5 seasons above average. On 2 September 2010, Niemi officially signed a one-year, $2 million FA contract with the San Jose Sharks after Chicago walked away from his arbitration award
· 2011/12 Brian Elliot SV .940 4/4 seasons above average. Elliott signed a one-year contract worth $600,000 with the St. Louis Blues on July 1, 2011
· 2011/12 Kari Lehtonen SV .922 4/6 seasons above average. 2010-Feb-09 Traded from Atlanta Thrashers to Dallas Stars for Ivan Vishnevskiy and round 4 pick in the 2010 draft (Ivan Telegin)
· 2012/13 Sergei Bobrovsky SV .932 4/4 seasons above average. 2012-Jun-22 Traded from Philadelphia Flyers to Columbus Blue Jackets for round 2 pick in the 2012 draft (Anthony Stolarz), round 4 pick in the 2012 draft (Taylor Leier) and round 4 pick in the 2013 draft (Justin Auger)
· 2013/14 Ben Bishop SV .924 3/3 seasons above average. 2013-Apr-03 Traded from Ottawa Senators to Tampa Bay Lightning for Cory Conacher and round 4 pick in the 2013 draft (Tobias Lindberg)
· 2014/15 Devan Dubnyk SV .924 2/2 seasons above average. 2015-Jan-14 Traded from Arizona Coyotes to Minnesota Wild for round 3 pick in the 2015 draft (Brendan Warren)

[Firebot]

Reimer is a career .914 goalie

Miikka Kiprusoff is a .912 goalie as comparison.

Reimer is 28 and has had some abysmal teams in front of him, and was given the starter position in the past when he wasn't ready. He's also trending up. There are far worse goalies to pick as a starter, and he is one of the best options as a starter out there without having to give out significant assets.

A Reimer / Ortio tandem I can stand by. No 'best goalie not in the NHL', no 'never been the same since vertigo'

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Goalie Guru Greg Balloch chimes in with the change in goalie prospects towards the smaller goaltender.

Will be interesting to see how equipment impacts the position.

http://ingoalmag.com/features/goaltender-size/

“I don’t think it’s a shift from bigger goaltenders to smaller goaltenders, we’re just starting to see goalies that track the best make it. They have better natural ability of skating, tracking down on pucks, seeing the puck better. It’s a combination of that stuff that gets you to the next level.”

That's the most important quote in the article. I don't really think the league will see a shift towards smaller goalies. Althetic and big is still the ideal. Some average sized goalies will still make it due to superior athleticism and reflexes. Small goalies will still have the odds heavily against them.

[Toonage]

Makes sense. A big guy like Bishop that swats at pucks could suffer more than an ever so slightly smaller guy like Andersen who is more positionally sound. I'm curious to see how Corey Crawford fares. He seems to fall in the middle, from my perspective.

[The Original FFIV]

Not sure if covered under any other thread but have to wonder if the expansion rules as are being rumored may force a team to trade one of their goalies sooner rather than later so that they don't have to expose one for the expansion draft.

A team like Anaheim would be a good case. Two good young G, one of which will need to exposed in the upcoming draft, if the rules are correct as being reported. One of Gibson and Andersen would need to be exposed so it would make sense that they move one for an asset so that they don't lose one for nothing. To a lesser extent, Winnipeg in a similar predicament as per Gary Lawless' twitter account. Hellebuyck or Eric Comrie could be exposed. Other decisions will involve Boston (Rask/Subban) and Pittsburgh (Fleury/Murray).

To a degree, Gillies would be at threat of being exposed as well. But believe we could upgrade at this pivotal position and have leverage over the seller as they risk loss of a top G or G prospect for nothing unless they are moved. As we have seen in the past, the G market is relatively soft with few exceptions (last summer being one of them).

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

Reimer has trouble staying healthy. How many times has he played 50 games?

Reimer has lost his job(and won it back a few years later).

How much history does reimer have as a #1? His first year and this year.

He's lucky to get 2yr/8m (total)

You are right. Reimer is like Jonas Hiller who keeps losing his #1 job to another goaltender. Hiller lost his #1 job to Andersen and Gibson then when he moved to Calgary he lost his job to Ramo twice and now Ortio. Reimer is the same way. He lost his #1 to Bernier and Sparks. He is way overrated here in CP and I don't understand why. Someone mentioned his name before then suddenly others follows and the next thing you know pretty much everyone wants him to sign with the Flames. I would rather have the Flames sign Ramo or someone else.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by OzSome

You are right. Reimer is like Jonas Hiller who keeps losing his #1 job to another goaltender. Hiller lost his #1 job to Andersen and Gibson then when he moved to Calgary he lost his job to Ramo twice and now Ortio. Reimer is the same way. He lost his #1 to Bernier and Sparks. He is way overrated here in CP and I don't understand why. Someone mentioned his name before then suddenly others follows and the next thing you know pretty much everyone wants him to sign with the Flames. I would rather have the Flames sign Ramo or someone else.

He never really lost the job to Bernier. They just gave it to him after he was acquired (although Bernier did play better than Reimer for a few years after the trade). That said - it is interesting that the Leafs management just gave up on him after he made it to the playoffs the year prior.

But he really didn't lose the job to Sparks. Sparks was in the minors until Reimer was traded. Sparks hadn't been with the Leafs for 2 months before the Reimer trade.

[Split98]

If you listen to a good handful of Leaf fans, they don't think that Reimer should have ever lost his job to Bernier. The whole signing was considered a mistake, and a massive disservice to Reimer.