16/17 Goalie Situation

[Dr. Doom]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The Flames will have better opportunity to address the tending in the off season. Why do it at the deadline when there are fewer options?

Myself as a fan I have a problem with it.
And judging by the hate for our goaltending more people do as well.
How long have we known that our goaltending is totally incompetent?
We've lost an entire season debating the pink elephant here.

It should have be an immediate need months ago is my point.
What sort of message is this sending both to the players and the fans?
But we only have a few more games to watch Hiller and Ortio let in 5 goals a game right?

All the wind from last season is definitely gone from our sails, and some.

[JiriHrdina]

But why rush ahead if you can address more effectively in the off season? Regardless of whether it should have been addressed long ago what is key is what they do now

[Textcritic]

^
So, you would have made even a bad deal for a goaltender just because fans hate the Flames goaltending?

*edit* «not directed at you, Jiri»

[ComixZone]

I don't get the hate for Ortio right now. He was grossly mishandled at the start of the season. Sure, perhaps something in practice rubbed Hartley the wrong way or something else unknown to us, but there was no excuse to leave Ortio in the rafters for as long as he did.

Ortio's last 4 starts:
CGY @ BOS - GA: 2, SV%: .920
OTT @ CGY - GA: 5, SV% .800
NYI @ CGY - GA: 2, SV%: .941
CGY @ LAK - GA: 2, SV%: 946

If Ortio had ANY goal support, he's 3-1-0 over the course of those 4 games and everyone is talking about how good he is. Those 4 games (well 3 of the 4) should be enough reason for Hartley to continue to play him and see what he has.

That Ottawa game sucked, but it wasn't on Ortio's shoulders. He didn't win us the game, but he certainly didn't lose us the game. In the games versus LA, NYI and BOS - he was our best player. Our goalie being our best player on any given night just isn't something we've been able to say very much this season.

With Ortio, his time is now. He's our best option between the pipes, and he has an awful lot to prove. His play is dictating that he should get the starts. Playing Jonas Hiller last night was a poor decision on Hartley's behalf.

Jonas Hiller has done nothing to deserve playing minutes this year - and the fact that he has continued to play is a key indicator as to why this team failed this year. Last year, every player earned their minutes. They pushed each other. This year? Hiller is given starts for no apparent reason, Wideman gets PP minutes for absolutely no reason at all - and the list goes on. There's no push from the bottom of the roster, because it has been filled with fat sassy vets that don't feel threatened.

I'm in no way saying Ortio is the chosen one (I don't think he'll ever be a starter in the NHL), or even the chosen back-up going forward, but given his play as of late - and the competition he's up against on our roster, it should be his net with Backstrom pushing him. Jonas Hiller shouldn't play again this season, he simply hasn't earned it.

[Dr. Doom]

I'm not asking for a premiere starter, a backup, and guys backfilled to the minors all to be done by the deadline guys. But I do think some sign of life would have been nice. Otherwise perception is reality to this guy.

Are you guys OK with watching Hiller the rest of the season? Or Ortio for that matter?
Because I for one am not, I can't watch these guys after Saturday's game and last night. They are horrible goaltenders, who is anyone kidding!

I get they want a stud like Murray.
I get they want a touted guy like Martin Jones too.
I get that guys like that might not be available until the off-season.

But they could have done a stop-gap measure to get us there.
Anything to show they acknowledge and care that making fans watch the stench going on now is unacceptable.

Its embarassing watching that brand of hockey weve created.
From 2nd round playoffs to last in the league...

But hey if you guys can wait until offseason, good luck!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

...It should have be an immediate need months ago is my point.
What sort of message is this sending both to the players and the fans?
But we only have a few more games to watch Hiller and Ortio let in 5 goals a game right?

All the wind from last season is definitely gone from our sails, and some.

I have to say, "Doom" certainly fits the character of this series of posts...

So, what is the message for players and fans? I would say that the players are likely on the constant receiving end of all sorts of messages that we never hear, and that this trade or that trade made or not made by management doesn't really resonate a great deal with the players in the light of what they are being told on a daily basis. I would hope and expect that the current message from management to the players is that they have not been good enough.

As for the fans, the message is BE PATIENT. A rebuild is a long process, and we are still a little closer to the beginning than the end right now. I am encouraged that Flames management has identified goaltending as a primary issue, and some of the recent events strongly suggest that they Treliving is aggressively in pursuit of a solution. I'm just one fan, but I would hope that most would take a pragmatic long view of the situation.

[JiriHrdina]

Yeah I'm ok watching bad goaltending the rest of the season. They aren't making the playoffs so it matters little. I don't want a stop gap, I want a proper solution

[btimbit]

I'd be okay Reimer if we got him for under 5m per. Raanta is intriguing as well.

If we were going to target Ward, we might as well just keep Ramo. I see them as similar at this point.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

...Are you guys OK with watching Hiller the rest of the season? Or Ortio for that matter?
Because I for one am not, I can't watch these guys after Saturday's game and last night. They are horrible goaltenders, who is anyone kidding!

Well, I'm okay with watching the last 19 play out with the Ortio, Backstrom, Hiller split. There is virtually nothing to be gained from a change made for the sake of change at the TD; especially given that it likely would have cost the Flames an asset.

I get they want a stud like Murray.
I get they want a touted guy like Martin Jones too.
I get that guys like that might not be available until the off-season.

But they could have done a stop-gap measure to get us there.
Anything to show they acknowledge and care that making fans watch the stench going on now is unacceptable.

But honestly, what good would a "stop gap" do for a 29th-place-team? I don't get why that should make us care any more.

As for the "acknowledgement" you so crave from management, I think the fact that there is every indication the Flames are aggressively pursuing a goalie like Matt Murray is exactly the sort of sign that we should reasonably expect at this point in time.

Its embarassing watching that brand of hockey weve created.
From 2nd round playoffs to last in the league...

But hey if you guys can wait until offseason, good luck!

I don't understand. "Good luck" with what exactly?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Myself as a fan I have a problem with it.
And judging by the hate for our goaltending more people do as well.
How long have we known that our goaltending is totally incompetent?
We've lost an entire season debating the pink elephant here.

It should have be an immediate need months ago is my point.
What sort of message is this sending both to the players and the fans?
But we only have a few more games to watch Hiller and Ortio let in 5 goals a game right?

All the wind from last season is definitely gone from our sails, and some.

I think it was an immediate need last off-season and something fell apart or it got bungled - I refuse to believe a well-conceived plan was to start the season with these three goalies. From where we are now, though, it needs to wait until the off-season for another try at fixing it properly. Hopefully Ortio is not as bad as you think, but let's find out.

[Dr. Doom]

Enjoy the kool-aid fellas!

[Ashasx]

wat

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Enjoy the kool-aid fellas!

Given your apparent expectations, it seems to me that you overdosed on koolaid a long time ago. If you ever believed that a rebuild would be quick, or that it would not feature a few seasons of some terrible hockey, then you were sold a bill of goods.

[Looch City]

Send Hiller to some remote town in Siberia.

Keep Ortio as back up.

Sign this kid to millions of dollars deal.

Spoiler!

Win Stanley Cup.

[Dr. Doom]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Given your apparent expectations, it seems to me that you overdosed on koolaid a long time ago. If you ever believed that a rebuild would be quick, or that it would not feature a few seasons of some terrible hockey, then you were sold a bill of goods.

I didn't say anything about a rebuild thanks. I'm talking about how bad our goaltending situation has been and continues to be. And management's inability to address it.

GEORGE: I'm sure we're all aware of the flaws and biases of standardized tests..
WYCK: These aren't standardized tests - these are his grades.

[JiriHrdina]

Why was the kool aid comment necessary. This is a decent discussion. Why start with that stuff? Adds nothing

[Dr. Doom]

Hah Jiri no disrespect come on... you guys are piling on me, and I think you're going along with a bad plan...

We can agree to disagree... its all good, don't tell me I ain't on board with a rebuild because the goaltending situation has been a gong show though - these guys have accepted a losing team and I for one don't like that (Oiler-ville)

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Hah Jiri no disrespect come on... you guys are piling on me, and I think you're going along with a bad plan...

We can agree to disagree... its all good, don't tell me I ain't on board with a rebuild because the goaltending situation has been a gong show though

The fact that you disagree is fine. But what I don't get is the insistence that adding a stop-gap for 20 practically meaningless games was a top priority for Flames management. To me, and based on what looks to me to be a clear plan to fix the goaltending problem in the summer, your preferred solution does not make a bit of sense. Maybe we are misunderstanding you, but I don't think you have provided a justifiably better alternative to the current plan.

[Vinny01]

I have read rumblings that te Avs could love Varlomov this summer to make room for Barrie and Mackinnons deals

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Hah Jiri no disrespect come on... you guys are piling on me, and I think you're going along with a bad plan...

We can agree to disagree... its all good, don't tell me I ain't on board with a rebuild because the goaltending situation has been a gong show though - these guys have accepted a losing team and I for one don't like that (Oiler-ville)

You are basing your argument on the Flames having 'given up' searching for a goalie. You don't know that Burke stated "it will be addressed in the off-season" because the Flames tried unsuccessfully to address the issue recently. In fact, Freidman commented that the Flames were interested in Murray, and the Pens refused.

Given that they were willing to acquire a goalie just a week or two ago, it would also make sense to me that they have probably been searching and kicking the tires on other goalies, and perhaps the prices were just too high to buy one in what is essentially a lost season?

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Yeah I'm ok watching bad goaltending the rest of the season. They aren't making the playoffs so it matters little. I don't want a stop gap, I want a proper solution

I 100% agree with this, with the exception that I would want the Flames to sign (not use assets) on a stopgap for a year if a proper solution can not be found within reason.

Flames will still not be competing for the cup for at least one more year (probably somewhere in the 2-4 years from now), so there is still a little bit of time - but it is an area that desperately needs some shoring-up for next season.

Hopefully they can find the solution that makes sense from an asset perspective (i.e. - not overpay) that performs at an above average level (or better), but I am not convinced one can be found without coughing up some serious assets that would create a large hole somewhere else.