[Trade] David Jones to Wild for G Niklas Backstrom and a 2016 6th round pick

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I don't waste my money on lottery tickets.

It's lousy because it's a ####ty return, if the Flames actually saved some money I wouldn't say a thing but to eat about a million of Backstrom's salary and give up the clearly better player for a 6th is a terrible trade. A bad trade is a bad trade.

Jones's value was a 6th. Getting something for a player you're about to lose for nothing is a good trade in my books. A good trade is a good trade.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Bringing in another terrible goalie and promising him starts? Always earned?

Hiller and Ortio have been lousy, and in my view have earned the right to sit down. The fact the Flames are willing to start a guy that hasn't even played for a year speaks volumes.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I don't waste my money on lottery tickets.

That's a cheap way of dodging the question.

Real lottery tickets are a tax on idiots, because the government keeps half the money from ticket sales. The entry draft is nothing like that, as you damned well know.

It's lousy because it's a ####ty return, if the Flames actually saved some money I wouldn't say a thing but to eat about a million of Backstrom's salary and give up the clearly better player for a 6th is a terrible trade. A bad trade is a bad trade.

They gave up a player who was going to walk for nothing at a time when the season is already done. They lost nothing. They gained a late draft pick. When you give up nothing for a possible something, there is no conceivable way for it to turn out badly. At worst, you end up getting nothing for nothing.

[devo22]

I'd rather take the 6th and the roster spot instead of getting nothing at all and having Jones in the lineup for the rest of the season. The 6th is an asset. Not a great one, but still an asset. Who knows. The Flames just traded for Jokipakka who was a 7th rounder a few years ago. They picked Mangiapane with their 6th last year. It might pan out. Odds have it that it won't, but why not get as many picks for pending UFAs as possible? Plus you can bet that Hathaway wouldn't have made his NHL debut yesterday - Jones would have played. So yeah, I'll take this deal over standing pat every day of the week.

[Poe969]

It's not a ####ty return at all though. If we would have got a 6th round pick for Russell, that would be bad. The value of the return has to be looked at compared to what was given up in the first place. You clearly think 6th round picks are worthless (even though a lot of really good players have been taken with them) so at what point are picks worth anything? after the 4th round are they all garbage or do only the first 3 rounds matter. If the Flames could trade their 7th round pick for a 5th round pick straight up, would you say no because the picks are garbage? No, you'd get a better return on your initial investment. The Flames had nothing else invested in Jones, he was garbage for the team and they weren't going to re-sign him. They turned essentially a used lottery ticket (they gambled on Jones being good and he wasn't) into a new one that could still win the lottery. It may not have the best odds but they got something for nothing.

Anytime you can get something of value while giving up something with no value to you, you do it.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Hiller and Ortio have been lousy, and in my view have earned the right to sit down. The fact the Flames are willing to start a guy that hasn't even played for a year speaks volumes.

Maybe so but this move is not a credible answer. I love most of what Treliving has done but the majority of his goalie moves have sucked.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Maybe so but this move is not a credible answer. I love most of what Treliving has done but the majority of his goalie moves have sucked.

This move is a credible answer… to a completely different question. It was never intended to solve the team's goaltending troubles. It was intended to equalize cap hits so Minnesota could afford to make the Jones deal.

[neo45]

Backstrom also ALWAYS beats the Oilers. His numbers against them are insane

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by devo22

I'd rather take the 6th and the roster spot instead of getting nothing at all and having Jones in the lineup for the rest of the season. The 6th is an asset. Not a great one, but still an asset. Who knows. The Flames just traded for Jokipakka who was a 7th rounder a few years ago. They picked Mangiapane with their 6th last year. It might pan out. Odds have it that it won't, but why not get as many picks for pending UFAs as possible? Plus you can bet that Hathaway wouldn't have made his NHL debut yesterday - Jones would have played. So yeah, I'll take this deal over standing pat every day of the week.

We didn't gain a roster spot though, Backstrom fills that roster spot.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by neo45

Backstrom also ALWAYS beats the Oilers. His numbers against them are insane

That changes everything

[Poe969]

We didn't gain a contract space but we gained a roster spot. Since Backstrom can't play RW, they have to fill that position by letting someone else play. I know what you're saying but Jones was almost always in the line up and now he won't be and someone else will be.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by neo45

Backstrom also ALWAYS beats the Oilers. His numbers against them are insane

At this point I think it'd be harder to pick up a goalie who doesn't always beat the Oilers.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

We didn't gain a roster spot though, Backstrom fills that roster spot.

We gained a free spot in the forward lineup. Jones + Hudler out, no forwards acquired. This spot can be used to audition our young players. With Hathaway in the lineup we are currently at 12 healthy forwards.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

We gained a free spot in the forward lineup. Jones + Hudler out, no forwards acquired. This spot can be used to audition our young players. With Hathaway in the lineup we are currently at 12 healthy forwards.

and only 2 recalls allowed after the paper transactions for Ortio and Wotherspoon. So do you know what difference this makes? Bollig will play every night.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

We didn't gain a roster spot though, Backstrom fills that roster spot.

I've addressed this before, but evidently you didn't see it. The 23-man roster limit is lifted after the trade deadline. At this point, only two things matter:

(1) The number of non-emergency AHL callups permitted.

(2) The 20-man lineup for each game.

According to his own account, Treliving wants to trim the active roster to the bare minimum so that any injury replacements will be emergency callups and not count against the limit. Having a third goalie is irrelevant to that (for skaters), because you can make an emergency callup whenever you have fewer than 12 forwards or six defencemen.

As for the game-day lineups, the only reason Backstrom will draw in is if both Hiller and Ortio continue to crap the bed. That seems almost certain to happen, but the other two goalies have no one to blame but themselves.

If anything, adding Backstrom gives the coaching staff an extra way to motivate the goalies. Without him, Hiller and Ortio would be dressing every game, guaranteed, barring injuries. If the team called up a third goalie because those two sucked so badly, it would use one of their non-emergency callups. Backstrom takes away their guarantee.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

and only 2 recalls allowed after the paper transactions for Ortio and Wotherspoon. So do you know what difference this makes? Bollig will play every night.

So what?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I've addressed this before, but evidently you didn't see it. The 23-man roster limit is lifted after the trade deadline. At this point, only two things matter:

(1) The number of non-emergency AHL callups permitted.

(2) The 20-man lineup for each game.

According to his own account, Treliving wants to trim the active roster to the bare minimum so that any injury replacements will be emergency callups and not count against the limit. Having a third goalie is irrelevant to that (for skaters), because you can make an emergency callup whenever you have fewer than 12 forwards or six defencemen.

As for the game-day lineups, the only reason Backstrom will draw in is if both Hiller and Ortio continue to crap the bed. That seems almost certain to happen, but the other two goalies have no one to blame but themselves.

If anything, adding Backstrom gives the coaching staff an extra way to motivate the goalies. Without him, Hiller and Ortio would be dressing every game, guaranteed, barring injuries. If the team called up a third goalie because those two sucked so badly, it would use one of their non-emergency callups. Backstrom takes away their guarantee.

so what you are saying is this trade did not gain us a roster spot, no one will be called up unless there is an injury, just like before. I don't think a 6th round pick for a serviceable player is a good trade even if you get the pick for "nothing". Nothing can be said will convince me that it is.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

so what you are saying is this trade did not gain us a roster spot, no one will be called up unless there is an injury, just like before. I don't think a 6th round pick for a serviceable player is a good trade even if you get the pick for "nothing".

No, I am saying that the trade gained us a roster spot. Are you having trouble with reading comprehension today?

And Jones has not been a serviceable player this year since the very early going. He's been dead weight.

Nothing can be said will convince me that it is.

Ah, I see. Your mind is made up; no point in trying to confuse you with the facts. Good to know.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

so what you are saying is this trade did not gain us a roster spot

again - IT DID. The Flames had 12 healthy forwards, then Jones was traded - that opened up a spot for Hathaway.

[Poe969]

there it is. You think Jones is a "serviceable player" and you liked having him on the team.

He wasn't serviceable, he was junk (hence only the 6th in return for him). The season is over, Jones tenure with the Flames was over when they decided not to even offer him a contract and the deadline was about getting as many future assets as possible.

I get that some on here liked Jones (I don't know why though) but it wasn't working out. It was a relationship between the player and the team that had no future. He looked like he was happy to be going and to me he seemed like a bit of a jerk in the interview. I'd rather have a 6th round pick then a guy on the team who doesn't want to be there.