[PGT] Free Fallin' for Forty Days: PHI 5 - CGY 3

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

While "not giving up on the season", my goals from here on out are:

See what Ortio has
Figure out the the pp and pk (though pp is well on its way)
Develop young d
Develop young fw

If that means sitting the top pair in an oiler game, I'll take it.

I would also not change the coaching staff in the off season. I'm a big fan of Hartley's motivation and his players tend to come to camp in shape. He runs a tough camp.

That said, if this team isn't .500 or better (real .500 where otl and sol are counted as losses) I'm looking for the next coach.

Are you Brad Treliving?

[SebC]

Rebuilding is fine. We finished rebuilding last season, moved on to just regular building. Now we're re-rebuilding, and that's what sucks.

[Tinordi]

Why would you conclude we finished rebuilding last season? We'd been rebuilding for only 1.5 seasons prior to that?

Rebuilds typically take 5 years.

We were rebuilding last year, just as we are rebuilding this year. Nothing has changed except for the almost unprecedented level of good fortune that the team experienced last year.

[TheOnlyBilko]

Keep the losses coming boys!!! I want the #1 pick this year! The hype all summef will he absolutely crazy if this happens!!!!

[Caged Great]

If the Flames received NHL average defending all season and 1 of Hudler/Bouma/Wideman produced near where they did a year ago, the Flames are likely in a playoff spot. When they goalies are constantly giving up terrible goals, it's hard to win.

The important players are having a good season. That's the thing that matters. Fix the team around those guys and we'll be fine.

[devo22]

nm double post

[devo22]

Personally there isn't a bad outcome of any Flames games at this point. If they win, I'm freaking happy because winning is always fun. I'm not cheering for losses, but if they do lose, it doesn't sting nearly as much as usual because it helps with regards to the draft.

Young guys looked good, Brodie is a machine, they fought hard and made the game interesting ... I'll take it.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

Good lord, you're hitting polak levels of negativity. Yes this season sucks, but we knew it was going to happen eventually in a rebuild. Maybe if it goes on a few more years you can compare us to the Oilers, until then, maybe stick to watching Panthers games

Originally Posted by AC

I appreciate the posters that post multiple times during the GT and in the PGT about how little they care anymore, and also provide updates on just how little they care anymore, because it's very important that everyone knows just how little they care anymore.

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

He should be used to the constant losing, being a Panthers fan.

Originally Posted by Dion

Originally Posted by Yoho

Mods any chance of a "Cali Oilers Fan"

Ok, WTF everyone? I can't make a flippant comment without being roasted? I'm really not so sure what you all are happy about. This has been an abysmal season outside of one hot stretch in December. Almost everyone looks bad on this team right now. They've lost 5 straight games and 8 of their last 9! What the hell are you all so happy about?

I know that this team is rebuilding, but there is some serious underperformance with this roster, and I'm getting really tired of the "rebuilding" excuse. They're much better than what they've been of late, and even really awful teams win 1 out of every 3 games or so.

This is painful. Am I not allowed to express how bad it sucks? Honestly, I don't get the backlash here. I'm just being honest. I'm no Polak who constantly looks at the negative side of things. I look for positives regularly, but they are becoming harder and harder to find this year.

You guys are angry at something alright, but it's not at me and my one comment.

[wingmaker]

I'm with Cali.

I think Treliving and crew have to be very concerned with how this season has gone.

Of course last season was blessed. Of course there was a good chance for regression. Of course the team is still "re-building", whatever that means.

But the poor results this year have to be seen as a significant step back, well beyond what might have been considered a levelling off or an evening out of averages. The Flames are going to be in tough to be within twenty points of their total from last year. That is a HUGE fall. More concerning than that, while there are some good individual performances on any given night, none of them are leading to team success. Gaudreau's season, TJ Brodie's season, Hamilton's improvement...none of it has galvanized the team. The hard working identity is gone.

So what gives?

Certainly goaltending for the first two months was abysmally atrocious. and perhaps it is as simple as that failure undermining the team's confidence for the rest of the season. But what is worrisome is that after Ramo found his game and the team went on a run in December, they were right with the playoff teams. And by all accounts on this board, Ramo's play through January was decent to good. And yet they flatlined, losing more and more ground in the playoff chase. And that was BEFORE Ramo's injury. Why wasn't his good play and their run of success the catalyst for better performances?

Also worrisome is that the defence, supposedly this team's strength, has been downright ordinary to bad. They still get points from Giordano, and they added Hamilton who has been improving, but they are not getting results. Too often teams are finding holes. Even with TJ Brodie and his skating, they do not use their defence to cleanly enter the offensive zone very often. Opposing teams do not at all seem intimidated by the threat of offence from the blue line the way they did last year.

I prefer to look for positives, and I more often than not give the Flames the benefit of the doubt. I certainly hope that a goaltender is brought in that can solidify the team and maybe that will provide the entire team with the confidence they need to play better. But I do find this season very troubling. And I think there is reason for concern that cannot be brushed aside as just being part of a rebuild. Of course we have to be patient, but there aren't as many positives to point at right now as one would hope.

[Yoho]

All of your comments are fair Cali, but to attach an Oilers analogy to a team one year after winning a playoff round is going to get called out.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

That said, if this team isn't .500 or better (real .500 where otl and sol are counted as losses) I'm looking for the next coach.

Your real .500 is not actually a real .500. There are 164pts for grabs and whatever % of points a team gets is their record. 82pts regardless of OT/SO losses is still a real .500 record.
Doubt the flames get there though

[AcGold]

The difference this year was the goalies, league worst goaltending when the goalie is the most important position? Of course we are out of the playoffs, at this point a top 15 goalie is more important than any player on our team.

[Roof-Daddy]

How is this teams advanced stats this year anyways? The corsi and what not?

Have those improved despite the poorer results?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Ok, WTF everyone? I can't make a flippant comment without being roasted? I'm really not so sure what you all are happy about. This has been an abysmal season outside of one hot stretch in December. Almost everyone looks bad on this team right now. They've lost 5 straight games and 8 of their last 9! What the hell are you all so happy about?

I know that this team is rebuilding, but there is some serious underperformance with this roster, and I'm getting really tired of the "rebuilding" excuse. They're much better than what they've been of late, and even really awful teams win 1 out of every 3 games or so.

This is painful. Am I not allowed to express how bad it sucks? Honestly, I don't get the backlash here. I'm just being honest. I'm no Polak who constantly looks at the negative side of things. I look for positives regularly, but they are becoming harder and harder to find this year.

You guys are angry at something alright, but it's not at me and my one comment.

Well their best forwards are under 23 years old so I simply don't see how you can not call yourself a rebuilding roster when none of your best forwards are in their prime. I'm an advocate for this team drafting as high as possible if they aren't going to be a playoff contender as getting the best available players via draft is going to accelerate the process.

That said I agree with you that it's been an abysmal season and I can live with the losing but it's just the way they lose playing so loose and sloppy defensively. It's just not the style of hockey that breeds success. I can see that a lot of fans are going to be giddy in the offseason when they bring in new goaltenders believing the problem is solved and the team will pick up where they left off after the 2014/2015 season. Those fans are going to be very, very disappointed as goaltending is an issue but it's on par with the worst combined special teams and worst defensive play in the NHL. I expect that even with better goaltending the team could be worse next season without veteran players like Hudler and Russell who won't be immediately replaced with this substandard coaching staff.

I'm not advocating Hartley be fired as I believe another top 5 pick is required beyond this season and he will take the team there (is there any doubt seeing the Flames have drafted 6th, 4th, and a guaranteed top 5 pick this season under his guidance?) but after next season he needs to be shown the door so a head coach with a more up to date emphasis on defensive play can steer the ship in the right direction as this team doesn't play a style of hockey conducive to success in the NHL. People that don't believe me best remember in November, December, January when I kept saying this team would draft top 5 and few people believed that thinking they would turn it around and they would draft "7th at best". Well it appears I can sniff out a poorly coached team better than most of you.

[Hackey]

I'm really surprised how down some fans are. Honestly I see this season as a blessing. We need another stud forward and getting one in the draft is easily our best route. If we could land one of the top 3 forwards, make a UFA signing, add a goalie, I think this very easily could be a playoff team next year. I have no issue with how the season has gone. In fact I'm actually kind of pleased because I think were going to land a player that will benefit us for the next decade.

[Flames_F.T.W]

If we had average goaltending I think we'd be a bubble team... which is where I expected us to be after over-achieving last year. Oh well, I'm fine with a high draft pick and now the rest of the season will be focused on youth development. Wouldn't mind seeing some players like Kylington, Shinkaruk and Poirier getting a cup of coffee (even if others are more deserving, I want to see those two in NHL games to see what we have)

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I'm really surprised how down some fans are. Honestly I see this season as a blessing. We need another stud forward and getting one in the draft is easily our best route. If we could land one of the top 3 forwards, make a UFA signing, add a goalie, I think this very easily could be a playoff team next year. I have no issue with how the season has gone. In fact I'm actually kind of pleased because I think were going to land a player that will benefit us for the next decade.

Agreed.

We need a high end winger, and we're poised to draft one. We also now have enough "bullets in the chamber" that Treliving can be aggressive at the draft and trade assets to address other organizational needs as well.

These final 40 days of the season will be rough, but things are going well. If three years ago, we were told that in three years we'd have Monahan, Bennett, Gaudreau, Brodie, Hamilton, Giordano, a playoff series victory against the Canucks and poised to draft a high end winger AND have three 2nd round picks...I don't think a single one of us would be upset with that.

Perspective and patience are important in fandom.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Why would you conclude we finished rebuilding last season? We'd been rebuilding for only 1.5 seasons prior to that?

Rebuilds typically take 5 years.

We were rebuilding last year, just as we are rebuilding this year. Nothing has changed except for the almost unprecedented level of good fortune that the team experienced last year.

Not to pick on your post, as I think your comments are very rational. Some questions though:

Is it true that rebuild typically take 5 years in the NHL's cap era? Are there examples of that? What does a team look like at the end of the rebuild? Contending for a championship , perennial playoff performer etc.?

Although no one should expect total linear progression during a rebuild, it is troubling the Flames brought back the same team from last year and added three significant pieces (Hamilton, Frolik, Bennett) and proceeded to have a much worse record.

An optimist will point to the good young players on the team. A pessimist will point will point to the lack of top caliber prospects knocking on the door to help the team take the next step.

I guess it also depends just how much you attribute this years record to poor goaltending.

[Lanny_McDonald]

@cali panthers fan

I don't think anyone, with the exception of richadow, is happy about this mess. I think you can look at things two ways. You either learn to hate the team and the game they play, or you embrace what they are doing and look for the positives. I hated the team after 20 games, saw where this train wreck was going, then learned to accept the team's fate and start to look for positives. We are not the Oilers, nor are we Oiler bad, so that comment is going to draw the ire of posters, especially from someone who has really developed a split alliegence between teams, and openly excited for the Panthers more than the Flames. Seriously, you're one Seegram's cooler away from going full Bouw n Arrow! I think that may run people the wrong way and cause a bit of a reaction as well.

Personally, I'm going to embrace the badness of this team and hope they use this opportunity to see what they have in the organization. They should be riding Ortio when possible and see what the kid has. They should be bringing up as many kids to see what they have as well. Agostino, Arnold and Hamilton deserve an opportunity to show what they can do at this level. I'm not going to be upset about losses at this point, as long as those kids, along with the youngsters already on the team, continue to get ice time to play and learn for next season. Yeah, things look bad, but they really aren't anywhere near as they appear. New goaltending, a new coaching staff, and new systems will make this team better next season. That isn't going full Oiler. That is an honest assessment of all the things that went wrong this season and where small changes can really improve the team.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I'm concerned people are becoming accustomed to losing. Very concerned.

Did you notice the scrums and a bunch of players throwing their weight around the past few games. Really doesn't look like a team's that given up.