2 dead & 6 injured as teens take after hours sled ride down Winsport bobsleigh track

[Philly06Cup]

Was the entrance to the bobsleigh track securely barred?

If there were an open entrance with a death trap at the other end, I would consider COP grossly negligent. It would be just as easy for another person to accidentally fall into the track and die.

Trespassing is moot. You can't put landmines on your private property and deny liability because others were trespassing. Sounds like a dangerous contraption with foreseeable consequences that COP could have better guarded against.

[VladtheImpaler]

I was contacted by the media for a comment re COP liability - fortunately/unfortunately I am not in town. I don't know if it's appropriate to get into a discussion of legal issues in this thread, but I will just say that Slava and Philly are on the right track...

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I was contacted by the media for a comment re COP liability - fortunately/unfortunately I am not in town. I don't know if it's appropriate to get into a discussion of legal issues in this thread, but I will just say that Slava and Philly are on the right track...

Mr Cozen's picked up.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Mr Cozen's picked up.

I like dealing with him.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, for everyone who sailed with the Titanic who did not know about the weakness of the ship's hull, or the lack of preparation on board for a potential sinking, it was tragic.

I just don't understand how no one thought the Titanic couldn't sink. If I had a ticket I would have counted the passengers and the amount of life boats before I got on. Even at 17 I would have gotten a maritime engineering degree and measured the hull thickness myself.

/polak

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I like dealing with him.

He is smart, I'll give ya that.


Smart enough to switch to Plaintiff side.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I was contacted by the media for a comment re COP liability - fortunately/unfortunately I am not in town. I don't know if it's appropriate to get into a discussion of legal issues in this thread, but I will just say that Slava and Philly are on the right track...

Would it be possible for them to be legally negligent and punished within the courts, but not be susceptible to a civil suit because the kids were trespassing?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

Was the entrance to the bobsleigh track securely barred?

If there were an open entrance with a death trap at the other end, I would consider COP grossly negligent. It would be just as easy for another person to accidentally fall into the track and die.

Trespassing is moot. You can't put landmines on your private property and deny liability because others were trespassing. Sounds like a dangerous contraption with foreseeable consequences that COP could have better guarded against.

It isn't a death trap though. If someone wasn't on a sled they would just stop, there would be enough friction to slow down the individual so they would come to a natural stop as happens with accidents that happen on bobsleigh tracks during competitions, they don't just slide down to the bottom of the run.

If the main area is fenced off, the actual track is closed and there is roving security guards on the park, I don't know if there is anything else that could be done, COP/Winsport likely has had due diligence beyond merely posting a sign.

It is a contraption with a secondary purpose and it is well known to be dangerous

[polak]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I just don't understand how no one thought the Titanic couldn't sink. If I had a ticket I would have counted the passengers and the amount of life boats before I got on. Even at 17 I would have gotten a maritime engineering degree and measured the hull thickness myself.

/polak

Maybe if you snuck onto the titanic while no one else was onboard and attempted to captain that beast with you and your buddies, we'd have a comparable analogy

That would be an epic way to go by the way. Hijacking the Titanic?

Yes.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Would it be possible for them to be legally negligent and punished within the courts, but not be susceptible to a civil suit because the kids were trespassing?

yeah nah.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

Was the entrance to the bobsleigh track securely barred?

If there were an open entrance with a death trap at the other end, I would consider COP grossly negligent. It would be just as easy for another person to accidentally fall into the track and die.

Trespassing is moot. You can't put landmines on your private property and deny liability because others were trespassing. Sounds like a dangerous contraption with foreseeable consequences that COP could have better guarded against.

This is why I predicted a lawsuit, even a simple sign on a chain at the start line explaining the bobsled switch gate was closed 1/3 down would have likely prevented this and certainly would have taken away all negligence.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Would it be possible for them to be legally negligent and punished within the courts, but not be susceptible to a civil suit because the kids were trespassing?

Trespassing or not doesn't matter if someone's negligence causes injury.

It's why when construction companies dig a big hole they just don't put "no trespassing signs" because even if someone does trespass and let's say the hole is covered by plywood and it collapses when the person walks on it....the construction company will still be responsible. You still have to make your property safe even when you're closed.

I don't see a scenario where there isn't a lawsuit brought and won/settled out of court. Now I only have a little information but from what I gather there was no gate at the top of the slide and that will likely be what will be the downfall of COP.

[Weitz]

If they can sue COP, I feel bad for our Society.

They did something stupid while trespassing, it is a tragic situation but it is no one's fault but their own.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I was contacted by the media for a comment re COP liability - fortunately/unfortunately I am not in town. I don't know if it's appropriate to get into a discussion of legal issues in this thread, but I will just say that Slava and Philly are on the right track...

Well I'm not a lawyer, or anywhere near that, so there's no professional concern for me. Its not like I'm giving reasonable advice or anything whereas for a guy like you it might be construed as a professional opinion of some sort I suppose. Although it seems like an interesting tort case and will be really interesting to see what comes of it in that regard.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

It isn't a death trap though. If someone wasn't on a sled they would just stop, there would be enough friction to slow down the individual so they would come to a natural stop as happens with accidents that happen on bobsleigh tracks during competitions, they don't just slide down to the bottom of the run.

If the main area is fenced off, the actual track is closed and there is roving security guards on the park, I don't know if there is anything else that could be done, COP/Winsport likely has had due diligence beyond merely posting a sign.

It is a contraption with a secondary purpose and it is well known to be dangerous

Ummm no, the gate is right after the turn 4 high speed tunnel tunnel, even on your ass you probably would be doing 60-70 k.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

He is smart, I'll give ya that.


Smart enough to switch to Plaintiff side.

He does ICBC defense - that's where I've dealt with him.

[polak]

People arguing it's not a death trap when people have died....

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Weitz

If they can sue COP, I feel bad for our Society.

They did something stupid while trespassing, it is a tragic situation but it is no one's fault but their own.

Thoughts like this are bad for society, not to mention health and safety.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by polak

People arguing it's not a death trap when people have died....

Then everything is a death trap. Your car, stairs, vending machines, showers, chairs are all death traps.

Calling something a death trap implies you have a high chance of being killed by it. Considering 99.9999% of people who have used the track haven't died, it isn't a death trap. It's only a death trap if you break into the park and use the track with your own sled and the gate is in the way.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by T@T

Thoughts like this are bad for society, not to mention health and safety.

Why?

Why can't personal responsibility be a larger part of our society? Instead of passing the blame.