The Jade Helm conspiracy theory

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by AcGold

But this is over the top ignorance in the most literal sense of the word. On one end of the spectrum are people that believe everything is a conspiracy, they'll even belief the Earth is flat and that people are reading their minds.

On the other end people make absolute statements and are ignor ant of history. To insinuate every conspiracy ever is nonsense ignores every documented case of actual conspiration. You'd be better off believing the Earth is flat, you really would. Ignorance plagues society and we are much worse off for it. See no evil hear no evil isn't true, that just makes it stronger.

I guess I assumed people would understand I was mostly referring to the over the top ridiculous conspiracy theories- Sandy Hook, 9/11 etc... I think everyone is aware that groups of powerful people are capable of conspiring for nefarious purposes, but probably not on the scale, or with the large number of resources and people, that many of the more ridiculous cases would require.

[OMG!WTF!]

Texas had Jade Helm, we have operation SCOPE. I've driven by the South Calgary Outdoor Pool several times in the last week and noticed some kind of Exercise going on. There was a dozen or more war trucks, hummers, secret service style suv's, the ones with the guns in the back, and a bunch of cops in combat gear. It's basically the same crew I saw outside my friend's house last summer. They surrounded the house, took up sniper positions and ten minutes later a confused looking guy gave up and walked out with his hands up. Does anyone know what they might be doing at the pool in my 'hood? Besides the obvious....Nenshi's take over. We really do have a militarized police force now.

[calumniate]

It's the establishment man, that freaking establishment

[icecube]

I don't find the 9/11 conspiracy to be over the top. Pile on me now if you must! I'll take my lumps like a man.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by icecube

I don't find the 9/11 conspiracy to be over the top. Pile on me now if you must! I'll take my lumps like a man.

Why bother, its one of the more dishonest conspiracy theories out there.

Its been debated and debunked to death.

One of the better sites that goes after the collection of 9/11 conspiracy theories.

http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

[blueski]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Texas had Jade Helm, we have operation SCOPE. I've driven by the South Calgary Outdoor Pool several times in the last week and noticed some kind of Exercise going on. There was a dozen or more war trucks, hummers, secret service style suv's, the ones with the guns in the back, and a bunch of cops in combat gear. It's basically the same crew I saw outside my friend's house last summer. They surrounded the house, took up sniper positions and ten minutes later a confused looking guy gave up and walked out with his hands up. Does anyone know what they might be doing at the pool in my 'hood? Besides the obvious....Nenshi's take over. We really do have a militarized police force now.

They were probably prepping for a code brown at the pool. Can't blame them for all the hardware, it is end of times stuff.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Matata

On one end of the spectrum you have "We are ruled by inter-dimensional lizard beings" on the other hand you have "Everything is just chaos". I don't think we exist at either end of the spectrum, but trying to separate fact from fiction in an elite society that exists behind a myriad of closed doors quickly becomes an impossible task. It is never unwise to question the intentions and motivations of those who wield power over us, even if that forces one to consider possibilities that seem silly or impractical.

Just because something can be labelled as a conspiracy theory, doesn't mean it should be intellectually dismissed. When I was a kid "The US gov't assassinated MLK" and "The CIA pumped crack cocaine into black communities to fund illegal armies in South America" were considered wacko conspiracy theories, they are now considered well documented facts.

Ummmmmmmm, the government didn't kill MLK. That much is fact. If you ignore the conspiracy sites, you'll find all the evidence for a conspiracy is completely made up

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by icecube

I don't find the 9/11 conspiracy to be over the top. Pile on me now if you must! I'll take my lumps like a man.

You don't find the theory that the CIA or the illuminati or the Jewish lizard CIA went to all the trouble of blowing up the World Trade Center then drugging or hypnotizing the rest of us to believe that hijacked planes flew into the buildings in order to create a false flag to start the Iraq War but then had the planes flown by a bunch of dudes from Saudi Arabia and Yeman with no connection to Iraq at all.

Makes perfect sense to me.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Why bother, its one of the more dishonest conspiracy theories out there.

Its been debated and debunked to death.

One of the better sites that goes after the collection of 9/11 conspiracy theories.

http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

That website is really bad. There are much better ones but even those leave so many unanswered questions. The things I want to know about 9-11 aren't even mentioned on this site. And the things it does claim to debunk are much much deeper than the surface that it scratches. I think believing the official story in the 9-11 Commission Report requires much more tin foil than does the conspiracy versions of events. 6 out of the 10 commissioners who wrote the thing don't even believe it.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

That website is really bad. There are much better ones but even those leave so many unanswered questions. The things I want to know about 9-11 aren't even mentioned on this site. And the things it does claim to debunk are much much deeper than the surface that it scratches. I think believing the official story in the 9-11 Commission Report requires much more tin foil than does the conspiracy versions of events. 6 out of the 10 commissioners who wrote the thing don't even believe it.

It's painfully clear though, that you're getting your info from dubious sources.

Firstly, the "6 out of 10 commissioners don't believe the story" is numerically wrong and misleading. There's 14 commissioners, so how does the math work?

Secondly, the source of much of the buzz in the conspiracy involves the difficulty in getting answers to basic questions. Two logical answers for this: usual fog of war, and more sinister, a re-election campaign. Most of the answers that were not easily answered were about preparedness. You can understand (but maybe not forgive?) the reticence in answering those questions.

None of the commissioners think anyone but terrorists did it, and none think the government is hiding complicity. That's absolutely stupid. I'm not being mean here, but it takes a certain level of cognitive dissonance to arrive at any other conclusion

[Resolute 14]

Bumps likes these are why people increasingly hate megathreads. Not because OP was wrong to make their post, but because it should have been a new thread rather than to drag a dead thread back to life.

As far as the 9-11 conspiracy stuff goes, the viability of a conspiracy is inversely proportional to the number of people involved. Consequently, the odds of winning the Powerball lottery are greater than the odds of any of these conspiracies being plausible.

That doesn't even touch the fact that Occam's Razor is a principle truthers fail to understand.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's painfully clear though, that you're getting your info from dubious sources.

Firstly, the "6 out of 10 commissioners don't believe the story" is numerically wrong and misleading. There's 14 commissioners, so how does the math work?

Secondly, the source of much of the buzz in the conspiracy involves the difficulty in getting answers to basic questions. Two logical answers for this: usual fog of war, and more sinister, a re-election campaign. Most of the answers that were not easily answered were about preparedness. You can understand (but maybe not forgive?) the reticence in answering those questions.

None of the commissioners think anyone but terrorists did it, and none think the government is hiding complicity. That's absolutely stupid. I'm not being mean here, but it takes a certain level of cognitive dissonance to arrive at any other conclusion

There were ten commissioners and four staff members. That's why you only see ten people in the actual picture of the commission. Also, one resigned stating "it is a White House" cover up. Two resigned stating conflict of interest. And one said that the whole thing was a "30 year conspiracy". They might all believe terrorists did the deed but the majority do not believe it happened as they said it did in the report.

There are simple things like several of the hijackers are still alive so who actually did this? The engine on Church street wasn't from a 767 so at the very least tell me why it was buried in a land fill never to be seen or mentioned again. Did the fog of war bury evidence? How do planes fly so fast without breaking up? When they found out twenty minute cell phone calls were impossible at thirty thousand feet, why did they change the cell phone calls to seat back phone calls when there are records of them as cell phone calls? Why are 84-85 videos of the plane hitting the Pentagon classified? Fog of war? And why does the one that is available have a frame missing and not show the actual plane? Why did Cheney order Norad to stand down? Who are the five dancing Israelis?

The list of coincidence is much longer including the list of tenants and information lost in building 7. The Bush connection to the security companies that managed the towers and all four airports. The office of naval intelligence at the Pentagon. The information held at Marsh and McLennan. The entire continental usaf save two planes was on war game assignments involving hijacked planes? The FBI was at a convention in California? The project hammer bonds coming due on Sept 12. PNAC. And project northwoods...this is not something that hasn't been imagined before. Suspicious last minute trades at the WTC. Obvious insider stock trading.

Mostly since day one I can't watch the collapse and imagine it is any other than an explosion. I'm not pretending to know the physics or engineering involved but a lot of people have a lot of questions that are not answered by fog of war and...there is a first for everything.

[metallicat]

Omgwtfshutup.

[CaptainCrunch]

oh good god.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

There were ten commissioners and four staff members. That's why you only see ten people in the actual picture of the commission. Also, one resigned stating "it is a White House" cover up. Two resigned stating conflict of interest. And one said that the whole thing was a "30 year conspiracy". They might all believe terrorists did the deed but the majority do not believe it happened as they said it did in the report.

There are simple things like several of the hijackers are still alive so who actually did this? The engine on Church street wasn't from a 767 so at the very least tell me why it was buried in a land fill never to be seen or mentioned again. Did the fog of war bury evidence? How do planes fly so fast without breaking up? When they found out twenty minute cell phone calls were impossible at thirty thousand feet, why did they change the cell phone calls to seat back phone calls when there are records of them as cell phone calls? Why are 84-85 videos of the plane hitting the Pentagon classified? Fog of war? And why does the one that is available have a frame missing and not show the actual plane? Why did Cheney order Norad to stand down? Who are the five dancing Israelis?

The list of coincidence is much longer including the list of tenants and information lost in building 7. The Bush connection to the security companies that managed the towers and all four airports. The office of naval intelligence at the Pentagon. The information held at Marsh and McLennan. The entire continental usaf save two planes was on war game assignments involving hijacked planes? The FBI was at a convention in California? The project hammer bonds coming due on Sept 12. PNAC. And project northwoods...this is not something that hasn't been imagined before. Suspicious last minute trades at the WTC. Obvious insider stock trading.

Mostly since day one I can't watch the collapse and imagine it is any other than an explosion. I'm not pretending to know the physics or engineering involved but a lot of people have a lot of questions that are not answered by fog of war and...there is a first for everything.

sources for all of it please.

[CliffFletcher]

Conspiracy theories are a psychological response to two common human needs: control and agency. People who feel they don't have any control over their lives are drawn to conspiracy theories because it's a way to make sense of the world. And we're hard-wired to look for agency in important events, even where there's no evidence of agency. Not coincidentally, those are also two of the reasons humans invented religion. The crops failed because we didn't appease Huitzilopochtli with sufficient sacrifices, not because crops rely on unpredictable weather patterns that we have no control over. God must have a plan for me, else all this suffering I've seen has no meaning.

The modern notions of powerful elites controlling the world rely on believing that these elites are nothing like us. That they posses far greater discipline and discretion than you and I (not to mention ruthlessness). It's tempting to feel that way if you think you have no power, and feel a gulf between you and the rich and powerful.

But they're not much different from us. They aren't the Borg. They work in institutions rife with cliques, jealousies, and resentments. They go home every night and try to blunt their anxieties with whatever means are at hand - alcohol, affairs, buying stuff they don't need and don't enjoy for long. They may have vast amounts of money, but their kids are drug-addled imbeciles. They're on their second or third wife. They have irritable bowel syndrome. They suffer from depression.

History shows us the enduring folly of even the most powerful people and organizations. Kings throwing away everything because of infatuations with the wrong women. Braintrusts draining the resources of their country in wars they can't win. Careers destroyed by hubris.

And of course, they can't keep secrets any better than the rest of us. They boast to friends. Confess to spouses. They trust doofus underlings who screw everything up. We all know that once three people are in on a secret, the odds if staying with only those three are almost zero.

But I don't expect conspiracy theories and theorists will go away, any more than I expect religion to go away. And there's about as much point in arguing with a conspiracy theorist over his beliefs as there is in arguing with a devoutly religious person about hers. You can't reason people out of beliefs didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

[Matata]

I have a very tough time buying the idea that the "Gov't did it all" when it comes to 911, but I don't doubt that a lot of monkey business got mixed in, which all may have been nothing more than people opportunistically taking advantage of the torrent of chaos that occurred in the wake of 911's events. To me, it seems equally ridiculous to assume that none of the bizarre events and circumstance surrounding the attacks are worth investigating.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Matata

Just because something can be labelled as a conspiracy theory, doesn't mean it should be intellectually dismissed. When I was a kid "The US gov't assassinated MLK" and "The CIA pumped crack cocaine into black communities to fund illegal armies in South America" were considered wacko conspiracy theories, they are now considered well documented facts.

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

I gotta ask for some links please.

Matata, can you provide some links to these two facts please?

[Puppet Guy]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Texas had Jade Helm, we have operation SCOPE. I've driven by the South Calgary Outdoor Pool several times in the last week and noticed some kind of Exercise going on. There was a dozen or more war trucks, hummers, secret service style suv's, the ones with the guns in the back, and a bunch of cops in combat gear. It's basically the same crew I saw outside my friend's house last summer. They surrounded the house, took up sniper positions and ten minutes later a confused looking guy gave up and walked out with his hands up. Does anyone know what they might be doing at the pool in my 'hood? Besides the obvious....Nenshi's take over. We really do have a militarized police force now.

Purple Ops ?

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's painfully clear though, that you're getting your info from dubious sources.

Firstly, the "6 out of 10 commissioners don't believe the story" is numerically wrong and misleading. There's 14 commissioners, so how does the math work?

Secondly, the source of much of the buzz in the conspiracy involves the difficulty in getting answers to basic questions. Two logical answers for this: usual fog of war, and more sinister, a re-election campaign. Most of the answers that were not easily answered were about preparedness. You can understand (but maybe not forgive?) the reticence in answering those questions.

None of the commissioners think anyone but terrorists did it, and none think the government is hiding complicity. That's absolutely stupid. I'm not being mean here, but it takes a certain level of cognitive dissonance to arrive at any other conclusion

Some people actually don't take the government at their word, 14 out of 14 commissioners or not I don't care what the commission said. Obviously there was enough circumstancial evidence to cause suspicions to rise, much like there was with JFK.

Jets stood down
White house staff met with members of Al Qaeda one day before 9/11
First steel structure ever to fall from fire, and then the second, and then miraculously a third (note fire being one of the reasons the commission gave)
Passports of terrorists at landing site
Firemen reporting explosions and secondary blasts
Weird behavior from president Bush.


Now this obviously isn't proof of a conspiracy, it's enough coincidence to make one logically contemplate the possibility of less than ethical behavior though.

To just flippantly say you're stupid for not believing the US government... why should we? What exemplary behavior do we have to follow that shows they are that trustworthy and exempt from scrutiny?

Their past president went to war over oil and opium, this one legalized fascism and drone strikes against their own population. I'm not seeing the logical stretch you are to sit and contemplate the possibilities, entertaining an idea without accepting is generally a logical way to go about things. It's just so condescending when there's so many patterns of evidence that logically should raise suspicion or at the least curiosity.

This fire was hot enough to melt steel columns, but the passports managed to land softly and untarnished in a pile of rubble. That's not weird at all, nothing to see, move along.