The way I see it intentional or not, this should be a good long suspension. You just can't cross check an official.
Denis Widemans long history in the NHL, and the fact that this type of thing just never happens and isn't in the culture of the game tells me that it was some kind of a surprise reflex, and not done with malice.
So I tend to agree with most who say around 10 games would be a comfortable number. Had Wideman left the game with a sever concussion I might feel like they could make it less, but they just can't argue that because they let him continue to play.
The only think that upsets me is he should have earned me 12 PIM in my pool for that play. No Idea why the refs didn't call that.
but tracking his eyes etc seem like a waste of time to me.
Complete waste of time, even if he was looking towards the linesman that doesn't mean he 'sees' him.
People think eyes are little video cameras, but they aren't. We have a very narrow (like 2 to 5 degrees, a couple of thumbs width at arms length) arc of vision where we can see high resolution, and detail drops quickly outside that.
The sharp wide field image we think we 'see' doesn't exist; it's a construction of our brains based on the small bits of historical information from the narrow sharp vision area of our eyes as they move around plus info from the low resolution rest of the eye and a bunch of other pre-existing knowledge.
Plus what our 'attention' is on has an impact on what we see as well.
There should be no problem believing that he didn't 'see' the linesman until the last moment even if his eyes were pointed right at him, given how the eyes work and how selective attention works if his attention was elsewhere.
I've seen this selective attention test done many times.
And...
Spoiler!
There's always a significant percentage, half or more, of people that do not see the guy in a gorilla suit in that video, despite one looking right at the video. More would see it here in this post because even posting it here I've primed observers to look for something out of the ordinary.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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Complete waste of time, even if he was looking towards the linesman that doesn't mean he 'sees' him.
People think eyes are little video cameras, but they aren't. We have a very narrow (like 2 to 5 degrees, a couple of thumbs width at arms length) arc of vision where we can see high resolution, and detail drops quickly outside that.
The sharp wide field image we think we 'see' doesn't exist; it's a construction of our brains based on the small bits of historical information from the narrow sharp vision area of our eyes as they move around plus info from the low resolution rest of the eye and a bunch of other pre-existing knowledge.
Plus what our 'attention' is on has an impact on what we see as well.
There should be no problem believing that he didn't 'see' the linesman until the last moment even if his eyes were pointed right at him, given how the eyes work and how selective attention works if his attention was elsewhere.
I've seen this selective attention test done many times.
And...
Spoiler!
There's always a significant percentage, half or more, of people that do not see the guy in a gorilla suit in that video, despite one looking right at the video. More would see it here in this post because even posting it here I've primed observers to look for something out of the ordinary.
I fail to see how that video is relevant in any way. Wideman is an NHL hockey player and he is aware of all the bodies around him, including the linesmen.
The argument that he was super woozy/concussed is a better one, if you're trying to defend him.
There's always a significant percentage, half or more, of people that do not see the guy in a gorilla suit in that video, despite one looking right at the video. More would see it here in this post because even posting it here I've primed observers to look for something out of the ordinary.
LOL....
Spoiler!
The second it walked into the frame, I thought, "Great, now I cannot count the passes, I'm too busy staring at the gorilla." Not saying my observation is at all relevant, but the thing stuck out like a sore thumb.
I fail to see how that video is relevant in any way. Wideman is an NHL hockey player and he is aware of all the bodies around him, including the linesmen.
It's relevant because Wideman is a human and subject to the same limitations of the vision system and brain attention that everyone else is. Just because he's in the NHL the anatomy of his eyes and the structure of his brain doesn't change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heep223
The argument that he was super woozy/concussed is a better one, if you're trying to defend him.
It's not an argument and I'm not trying to defend him, it's information on how the body and brain works that should be taken into account when "what someone sees" is relevant to a decision; looking at someone's eyes and where they're pointing does not equate to what they see.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
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It's relevant because Wideman is a human and subject to the same limitations of the vision system and brain attention that everyone else is. Just because he's in the NHL the anatomy of his eyes and the structure of his brain doesn't change.
Also, being woozy/concussed/shaken up doesn't mean the brain is focused on where the head is pointing. Wideman could have been running on instinct or muscle memory at that point just to get back to the bench. So still photos prove nothing from that perspective.
The problem for Wideman is pushing off the linesman. Whether or not he saw Henderson early, and whether or not he intended to or wanted to crush the linesman, that is what happened. How Wideman explains that to Campbell is likely what decides the length of this suspension.
Yeah that's where I was and still am; the contact was incidental, but if there's a suspension it'll be about the cross check or follow through or whatever you want to call it.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
I fail to see how that video is relevant in any way. Wideman is an NHL hockey player and he is aware of all the bodies around him, including the linesmen.
The argument that he was super woozy/concussed is a better one, if you're trying to defend him.
Do you think because he's a NHL hockey player he's some kind of super hero or something?
There is a top down angle I saw on twitter but can't find it anymore...all the media wants to show is this angle that honestly looks way worse
Its out there so Wideman's PA guy probably has it
It's still right there for everyone to view on TSN's website, and it doesn't change a lot, from my perspective. Wideman's arms are still up, his stick is in his hands, and he still hits the official up high with them.
I know I said I was done, but misinformation and conspiracy nonsense are difficult for me to suffer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
It's still right there for everyone to view on TSN's website, and it doesn't change a lot, from my perspective. Wideman's arms are still up, his stick is in his hands, and he still hits the official up high with them.
I know I said I was done, but misinformation and conspiracy nonsense are difficult for me to suffer.
Not sure how it doesn't change anything. The angle from behind looks like Wideman goes after the linesman with much more malicious intent, while the other angle, as Button correctly points out, shows the initial contact to look more coincidental. The fact that he pushes away with his arms is what did the damage. Maybe he should still be suspended, but as far as people painting this as a Wideman being some thug who went on a rampage against an official, the other angle paints a different story. I would say intent matters, and the angle everyone has been freaking out over is much more easy for everyone to vilify Wideman without looking at other possibilities.
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A few weeks after crashing head-first into the boards (denting his helmet and being unable to move for a little while) following a hit from behind by Bob Errey, the Calgary Flames player explains:
"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
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It's still right there for everyone to view on TSN's website, and it doesn't change a lot, from my perspective. Wideman's arms are still up, his stick is in his hands, and he still hits the official up high with them.
I know I said I was done, but misinformation and conspiracy nonsense are difficult for me to suffer.
that is from the night it happened, its hard to find on their site they have shown the other one 1000 times in all the other stories. And most news outlets are using the other one only. I would say 90% of people haven't seen both angles and the top one doesn't look nearly as bad.
Linesman gets up works the rest of the game, tells Wideman he is fine, tells the media he is fine after the game (reported by Francis)
Suddenly the next day we learn he spent the night in hospital and haven't heard anything since from either side
Thanks for posting it though judging by the comments on here many are seeing it for the first time...do you know anywhere that just has the clip with out watching all the other crap? maybe a gif?
It's still right there for everyone to view on TSN's website, and it doesn't change a lot, from my perspective. Wideman's arms are still up, his stick is in his hands, and he still hits the official up high with them.
I know I said I was done, but misinformation and conspiracy nonsense are difficult for me to suffer.
Craig Button saying what I was saying earlier. If the officials thought it was abuse of an official, they would have called a game misconduct.
And some people keep mentioning that the linesman going to the hospital looks bad, but it doesn't change anything. If someone has a workplace accident, they would be well advised to go see a doctor ASAP just in case they end up needing to take time off.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 01-30-2016 at 06:54 PM.
Apr 17, 2015 - Bob Hartley fined $50k for his responsibility for the incident that took place on ice during Game 2 of the Flames' first round series against the Vancouver Canucks.
Jan 18, 2014 - Bob Hartley fined $25k for attempting to start a premeditated fight with an unwilling opponent.
Feb 17, 2013 - Mark Giordano fined $10k for slew-footing Antoine Roussel.
Dec 30, 2011 - Cory Sarich fined $2.5k for an illegal hit to the head of Erik Condra.
Jan 20, 2011 - Curtis Glencross fined $2.5k for boarding Clayton Stoner.
Dec 3, 2010 - Curtis Glencross fined an undiclosed ammount for a cross-check to the head of Keith Ballard.
Last edited by AC; 01-30-2016 at 09:15 PM.
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Apr 17, 2015 - Bob Hartley fined $50k for his responsibility for the incident that took place on ice during Game 2 of the Flames' first round series against the Vancouver Canucks.
Jan 18, 2014 - Bob Hartley fined $25k for attempting to start a premeditated fight with an unwilling opponent.
Feb 17, 2013 - Mark Giordano fined $10k for slew-footing Antoine Roussel.
Dec 30, 2011 - Cory Sarich fined $2.5k for an illegal hit to the head of Erik Condra.
Jan 20, 2011 - Curtis Glencross fined $2.5k for boarding Clayton Stoner.
Dec 3, 2010 - Curtis Glencross fined an undiclosed ammount for a cross-check to the head of Keith Ballard.
Over 4 years. Wow.
Also, Olli Jokinen? Hitting someone? Wut?
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Does it free up a roster spot if he's suspended? Can Ferland come back without any other moves or will we have to demote Granlund?
Suspended players in general take up a roster spot. However, teams can request suspended players not take up a roster spot, but that needs to be approved by Bettman.
Bettman did approve it for the Sharks with regards to the Torres suspension. Even if the league grants disposition to move a suspended player to non-roster, the suspended player's cap hit still counts.
