Wideman Decision Expected Wednesday

[HUSKER4FLAMES]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yup, it a typical "replace me on the ice" signal.

I'm surprised that so many people don't seem to know this.

So he is aware enough to signal a change but can't see the linesman? Can't be both ways. I have seen plenty of hurt guys not signal a change and seen plenty of guys use their stick to express frustration. So he's either injured and woozy and didn't see him or he was aware and knew what he was doing.

Either way my point stands.

[TheScorpion]

Just got notification on my iPad - per TSN, NHL expected to make decision today.

[Geeoff]

If that was intentional, he shouldn't play another game in the NHL.(please?)

[Yorkshire Flame]

I'm just happy there's a chance Dennis Wideman won't be playing Hockey for the Flames for a while.

[mrkajz44]

I didn't have time to wade through this entire thread, so sorry if this is re-hash.

I was at the game last night, sitting behind the Preds net, and what I remember most about that play is the extremely quick pass that came up the ice from the Pred's D-man. In what looked to be a casual breakout starting behind the net, the D man quickly cut to the right and fired and hard pass up the boards.

You don't see this in any of the replays of course, but I think it was a big factor. Wideman probably looked down the ice, saw a lane to the bench and a breakout hadn't started. Then he puts his head down. A second or two latter, the play is suddenly coming right at him and the linesman is in a drastically different spot than he expects. Collision is unavoidable. He's surprised by someone suddenly being in his way and he just reacts as he normally would when getting hit - keeping himself upright.

I think he'll get suspended because of the optics of those replay angles, but I believe him 100% when he said it was an accident and he didn't mean to hurt him at all.

[Armchair Quarterback]

What is truly hilarious, or frightening, is that Wideman is so dumb that it wouldn't surprise me either way if it were intentional or not.

One explanation requires believing that (a) he is dumb enough to hit a ref from behind on purpose; the other (b) that he is dumb enough to not see someone directly in front of him when skating on the ice.

This is why we are debating it.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback

What is truly hilarious, or frightening, is that Wideman is so dumb that it wouldn't surprise me either way if it were intentional or not.

One explanation requires believing that (a) he is dumb enough to hit a ref from behind on purpose; the other (b) that he is dumb enough to not see someone directly in front of him when skating on the ice.

This is why we are debating it.

What an unnecessary post.

[SuperMatt18]

I don't think he did it intentionally at all, but I'm not sure that is enough to get him off a suspension.

Much like if you high stick a guy accidentally it's still a penalty, if you accidentally blow up an official and give him a concussion it's probably still worth a suspension.

I think he will get something in the 5 to 10 game range.

Sure it's an accident but you still have to be control of yourself at all times on the ice. Plus it has gotten so much negative media attention in the U.S. that the NHL is going to have to feel obligated to at least lay down some punishment.

[Yorkshire Flame]

The only reason I'd be disappointed if he was suspended, is that he can't potentially raise what little trade value he has left, before the deadline.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I would argue that not being able to defend your argument in debate, is a sign that you have lost a debate.

I contend that if the officials thought that a player deliberately assaulted one of them, that they would have ejected the player. You obviously disagree.

You haven't made an argument that actually challenges mine. Christ. Why don't you just double down and go with "what if the player snaps his stick in half and then stabs the linesman through the heart with it it?" as a question.

Your contention expressed here is also a case of moving the goalposts. You said that you felt the referees could go watch a video and then retroactively asses a penalty. I told you that is false. Changing your argument to a more general "if they felt he abused an official then they would throw him out" is very much true, but very much not your original argument.

[TheScorpion]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 23m23 minutes ago
Confirming NHL linesman Don Henderson was in hospital for precautionary reasons. Home now. NHL expected to decide on Wideman today.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by HUSKER4FLAMES

So he is aware enough to signal a change but can't see the linesman? Can't be both ways. I have seen plenty of hurt guys not signal a change and seen plenty of guys use their stick to express frustration. So he's either injured and woozy and didn't see him or he was aware and knew what he was doing.

Either way my point stands.

It's not an "either/or" situation. You can be aware of one thing and totally focused on it, while still being unaware of other things. If you are woozy and your mind is on a rail, it's not hard to miss what else is going on around you.

I remember reading an article about Eric Lindros playing full shifts, scoring goals, and not remembering it after the game. Heck, there was one time he said that he looked around the showers and noticed that they weren't the ones they had in Philly, so he thought he was traded. It turns out that he was just playing on the road. He didn't know what the heck was going on, but he still performed as a high caliber athlete.

You have no idea what was going through Wideman's head at that moment.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

What an unnecessary post.

Disagree. Was dumb either way - just the degree of dumb that needs to be debated.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I don't think he did it intentionally at all, but I'm not sure that is enough to get him off a suspension.

Much like if you high stick a guy accidentally it's still a penalty, if you accidentally blow up an official and give him a concussion it's probably still worth a suspension.

I think he will get something in the 5 to 10 game range.

Sure it's an accident but you still have to be control of yourself at all times on the ice. Plus it has gotten so much negative media attention in the U.S. that the NHL is going to have to feel obligated to at least lay down some punishment.

The difference is that an accidental trip or high stick is a penalty under the rules. A suspension requires a deliberate act under the rules.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Find me video of a player running over a ref/linseman and the player stops to make sure the ref is okay, or help him up while the play around him continues.
Look at the Weber video, he plows into the ref, face to face, stick up, they both fall to the ice, Weber gets up, and continues to play, the linesmans well being is not his concern, if he's injured they'll blow the play dead, until then, game on. Same thing with the Volchenkov clip, he continues on, and in fact, after the kings score, the Devils bench/coach are outraged as they feel the collision with the ref led to the scoring opportunity. At no time was the linesmans well being the concern, and he was busted up and bleeding pretty bad. That's the nature of the game, you play until the whistle blows, and until it does, it's a contact sport. The refs are well aware of this as well, which is why the play isn't blown dead every time a ref gets bumped.

Find me a video lol. I don't care if you have a different opinion than me. I'm not out here trying to convince you to see things my way.

[Robbob]

I think he was in a bit of a daze and the saw white and thought it was Nashville player. The whole zebra camo effect.

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I think he was in a bit of a daze and the saw white and thought it was Nashville player. The whole zebra camo effect.

Is the dress white and gold or blue and black?

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback

What is truly hilarious, or frightening, is that Wideman is so dumb that it wouldn't surprise me either way if it were intentional or not.

One explanation requires believing that (a) he is dumb enough to hit a ref from behind on purpose; the other (b) that he is dumb enough to not see someone directly in front of him when skating on the ice.

This is why we are debating it.

So, in theory, every hockey player, in history, who has ever made incidental or accidental contact with a referee, a team mate, or an opponent, must in fact have the brain capacity of a rock in a comma, because there is just absolutely no other logical reason for there to be unplanned or unwanted contact while on ice, wearing skates, moving anywhere from 20-30 km/hr.
For that matter, anyone involved in a car accident is either A) dumb enough to cause the accident on purpose, or B) dumb enough to not realize they are about to cause an accident. It's simple physics really, no other explanation required.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Please point out to me at what point you see anger coming from Wideman.

When he cross checks the linesman in the back, follows through, and doesn't even flinch. I'm not saying he did that out of anger but to not acknowledge that possibility is a bit naive in my opinion.

[Armchair Quarterback]

Originally Posted by wretched34

So, in theory, every hockey player, in history, who has ever made incidental or accidental contact with a referee, a team mate, or an opponent, must in fact have the brain capacity of a rock in a comma, because there is just absolutely no other logical reason for there to be unplanned or unwanted contact while on ice, wearing skates, moving anywhere from 20-30 km/hr.
For that matter, anyone involved in a car accident is either A) dumb enough to cause the accident on purpose, or B) dumb enough to not realize they are about to cause an accident. It's simple physics really, no other explanation required.

That is a perfect summary of my post and the point I was making. Excellent work