Shooter in Saskatchewan?

[Johnny199r]

I read an article that said the shooter was bullied quite a bit. He was bigger and had big ears. During the shooting he asked some people to make fun of his ears now. Others who had been kind to him, he let go.

Obviously no excuse for shooing anyone, but kids can be cruel.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I read an article that said the shooter was bullied quite a bit. He was bigger and had big ears. During the shooting he asked some people to make fun of his ears now. Others who had been kind to him, he let go.

Obviously no excuse for shooing anyone, but kids can be cruel.

Kids CAN be cruel. Nothing more cruel than murdering your classmates.

[peter12]

This whole "rush to defend the perpetrator" thing is pretty macabre.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I read an article that said the shooter was bullied quite a bit. He was bigger and had big ears. During the shooting he asked some people to make fun of his ears now. Others who had been kind to him, he let go.

Obviously no excuse for shooing anyone, but kids can be cruel.

Do not care about his reasons, or justifications. He killed four people.

Hopefully he rots, he's clearly not capable of being part of society.

Do I feel bad for kids getting bullied? Absolutely

Do I have any sympathy or a give a $$$$ factor for someone that goes around killing people because he or she is made fun of? Absolutely not.

In the end, he's not the victim here, the dead are, and the victims family are, and his family is.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I read an article that said the shooter was bullied quite a bit. He was bigger and had big ears. During the shooting he asked some people to make fun of his ears now. Others who had been kind to him, he let go.

Obviously no excuse for shooing anyone, but kids can be cruel.

I highly doubt the two teachers he killed bullied him.

[speede5]

I don't think anyone is excusing the actions of the shooter by talking about bullying.

Society does need to accept the consequences of it's bad behavior, if those consequences are sending someone over the edge, you have to accept some of that.

Maybe I'm just too sensitive, I am getting real tired of internet bullying, shaming, it's unreal how callous people are becoming.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Do not care about his reasons, or justifications. He killed four people.

Hopefully he rots, he's clearly not capable of being part of society.

Do I feel bad for kids getting bullied? Absolutely

Do I have any sympathy or a give a $$$$ factor for someone that goes around killing people because he or she is made fun of? Absolutely not.

In the end, he's not the victim here, the dead are, and the victims family are, and his family is.

Why does that have to be the question???

I hate this line of thinking. Yes that's where sympathy goes. But why can't we talk about causes instead of paying blame games?

Bullying was a contributor to the incident, so can't we discuss how and why? Maybe look for solutions?

"No, I don't care about the cause! I want someone to be angry at!"

Be angry with the shooter. We all are. But I'd like people to K at what drove someone to do that too.

[Johnny199r]

People here are acting like I'm excusing the shooter. Not at all. Looking at why these incidents happen to see if they can be prevented isn't a bad idea either.

We are often terrible to each other. Especially growing up, where there is no escaping it at school. I wonder if we'll ever teach our kids not to pick on each other.

[Engine09]

Quite painful watching the mayor and MP speaking to reporters, for more than one reason. Painful to see the shock and hurt on their faces but also painful how ineffective they are at communicating. I understand they're reeling from what happened and English is not their first language but when asked what can be done immediately to help the children and people of the community the immediate response was "programs, funding, tear down the school and rebuild it".

One would think that after a horrible event like this they would be forced into a certain amount of introspection, it's tough to look at how you've raised your own children and take responsibility. Just very disappointing to hear blame being placed immediately, especially when money is what they are saying is needed right now. I love and respect a lot of people from that town, I'm thinking they're just desperate for help and are using this attention to get some of the things they're been asking for. I'm just hoping they can be honest with themselves and break the pattern.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Why does that have to be the question???

I hate this line of thinking. Yes that's where sympathy goes. But why can't we talk about causes instead of paying blame games?

Bullying was a contributor to the incident, so can't we discuss how and why? Maybe look for solutions?

"No, I don't care about the cause! I want someone to be angry at!"

Be angry with the shooter. We all are. But I'd like people to K at what drove someone to do that too.

Bullying has been around forever, when I was a kid when I saw it I put a bulls-eye on the bully and found a way to kick the crap out of him and in-turn stop him from being a bully. from memory this happened about 4-5 times as a teenager.

Here's the problem, nowadays a kid like I was was would be in the wrong and too violent, in other words, you can't pick up for yourself or your friends if it includes punching someone in the mouth.

BS in my opinion.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by T@T

Bullying has been around forever, when I was a kid when I saw it I put a bulls-eye on the bully and found a way to kick the crap out of him and in-turn stop him from being a bully. from memory this happened about 4-5 times as a teenager.

Here's the problem, nowadays a kid like I was was would be in the wrong and too violent, in other words, you can't pick up for yourself or your friends if it includes punching someone in the mouth.

BS in my opinion.

What a load of crap

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by T@T

when I was a kid when I saw it I put a bulls-eye on the bully and found a way to kick the crap out of him and in-turn stop him from being a bully.

You beat up bullies and made them change their ways? What a hero!

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

What a load of crap

Not really. Anecdotal obviously, but in my junior high / high school experience, the only time a bully legitimately stopped picking on a target was after the target beat the snot out of them. Nothing else seemed to work and involving a teacher undoubtedly made things worse.

Unfortunately this usually resulted in the bully shifting their aggression to someone else rather than stopping altogether, and physical response isn't an option if the target isn't stronger than the bully, but it's an effective option in the right circumstances.

EDIT: This reminds me - CBC Radio had some type of bullying expert on this past summer. To my surprise, she didn't rule out physical response to a bully as a viable option. She did mention that it's not an option for kids in many scenarios, however.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by T@T

Bullying has been around forever, when I was a kid when I saw it I put a bulls-eye on the bully and found a way to kick the crap out of him and in-turn stop him from being a bully. from memory this happened about 4-5 times as a teenager.

Here's the problem, nowadays a kid like I was was would be in the wrong and too violent, in other words, you can't pick up for yourself or your friends if it includes punching someone in the mouth.

BS in my opinion.

and the maidens swooned.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Not really. Anecdotal obviously, but in my junior high / high school experience, the only time a bully legitimately stopped picking on a target was after the target beat the snot out of them. Nothing else seemed to work and involving a teacher undoubtedly made things worse.

Unfortunately this usually resulted in the bully shifting their aggression to someone else rather than stopping altogether, and physical response isn't an option if the target isn't stronger than the bully, but it's an effective option in the right circumstances.

EDIT: This reminds me - CBC Radio had some type of bullying expert on this past summer. To my surprise, she didn't rule out physical response to a bully as a viable option. She did mention that it's not an option for kids in many scenarios, however.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Here's what I find a bullcrap:

"Bullying was a contributor here, maybe we should examine the issue"

"Ya know see, back in my day see, bullying still happened see. If just pop 'em in the nose and it'd go away!"

As if that's the solution of even relevant to the topic. It's just old man coloring in stories from his childhood and isn't in anyway relevant or helpful. Should we just suggest every bullied kid start hitting back? It has it's uses maybe, but for lots of kids that would only make it worse. And it's that even what he's suggesting?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

We are often terrible to each other. Especially growing up, where there is no escaping it at school. I wonder if we'll ever teach our kids not to pick on each other.

Bullying - at the least the violent type - was far more common when I was a kid than it is today. A day didn't go by when there wasn't a face-wash, a dogpile, or jackets pulled over heads and books kicked across the school-yard. But kids were more violent then full-stop, with rough-housing happening all the time, and full-blown fist-fights a weekly occurrence.

I have an unusual vantage living in a home that looks out onto the school playground where I myself went to elementary. And I must say that teachers or parents today sent in a time machine back to that schoolground in 1980 would have a nervous breakdown within minutes over what they witnessed. Incidents that would have been under the radar of teachers 35 years ago, or too frequent to bother taking action over, are now unusual occurrences that result in messages home to parents. So we must be doing something better.

Bullying has less to do with parenting than we want to believe. Does anyone really think there are parents out there telling their kids to identify the weakest and most vulnerable of their classmates and then ostracise and torment them? Humans are naturally violent, status-seeking pack animals. Look at how other primates treat one another. We can be compassionate and cooperative and empathetic, and there's every indication we are getting more compassionate and cooperative and empathetic. But kids are not blank slates. Our efforts at socializing them take time to sink in, and are rarely as effective as we hope.

Bullying hasn't increased or gotten worse. What has changed is that our tolerance for bullying has gone way down. And that's a good thing. But it's not going to disappear altogether. And most of the time it does no lasting harm. What we need to do is take mental health more seriously, and develop ways to identity and deal with high-risk individuals - both the perpetrators and the targets - earlier.

[pylon]

First off, I am not defending the shooters actions for a second. But what always bugs me in these situations, whenever a kid shoots up a school, they always look at the mental health or social issues with the shooter. And then heap sympathy on the victims families. What you never see discussed is, "Yeah, Johnny was a total moron for shooting up the school, but one of his victims, Billy, was a mercilessly cruel animal to him... and kinda had it coming. Billy shares some blame to, if he hasn't been such an asshat 24/7."

You never hear the other side. You never hear about the treatment that drive the kid to it. You never have the parenting of the victims come into question for raising such cruel evil children.

As a kid that was bullied, and opted to just be a recluse that tinkered with cars, instead of becoming mass murderer. My dad always re-enforced that once you're out of school, none of this will matter. But I can understand how some of these kids get to that point. I was in a situations where the teachers would side with the popular kid, and let them get away with it. It's not just the kids that mess with these awkward kids, the teachers do to, but they'd never admit it.

It can be a helpless situation to be in. And if you poke a troubled enough kid enough, this is what happens nowadays.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by pylon

You never hear the other side. You never hear about the treatment that drive the kid to it.

Much like the sexual attacks that evoke so much anger but is still good to examine what leads someone down that road. Nobody excuses the action to any degree, but it is good for society as a whole to figure out the root causes as there might be something we can change. Not really about blame or excusing, more about hopefully finding a link so that we can progress past terrible acts like this in the future.

The comments like "it was worse in my day and i just punched the guy in the nose!" are a little sad to see. If it worked for you, great! It doesn't mean that it works for everyone (though I still heartily recommend trying). Kids are brutal to each other growing up sometimes.

[shermanator]

You know, after reading the fact that the shooter was bullied, I can see where he's coming from a little bit. I don't necessarily sympathize with them, but I've been in their shoes.

When I was in junior high, I was bullied frequently, and there were a few people in particular who tormented me. Absolutely made my life a living hell. I was a small kid, so there was no way I was going to stick up against any of these guys in any sort of fight. I often had thoughts that the only way to bullying would go away would be to bring a gun to school and shoot them. And I mean, these thoughts were daily.

The difference is, I knew that shooting anyone was not the right way to make it go away, and this kid did not. (or did know that it was wrong, and shot up the school it anyways) Also, if I had access to a gun, my story may have been different.

So, I have to ask, why was I able to understand that this type of act is wrong whereas this kid did not?

[Vulcan]

When I went to school all the bullying I ran into was physical. Yeah I got in a lot of fights (self protection in my eyes) but today from what I've read, it's gotten different and kids are being attacked on social media which may be worse as it doesn't die.