2015-2016 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Don't be silly. If you make a Loup a loogy then he's more then perfectly fine. Aaron Loup was great at getting lefties out last year and has been great against lefties his entire career.



Does Rosenthal get paid per word? Because he used a whole lot of words to say not much at all. Really the Jays submitted a number that would effectively tie Donaldson for the highest arbitration award ever for a 2nd time eligible player that's not a number that should get anyone's hackles up.

He's basically calling the Blue Jays cheap in that article and saying he doesn't understand why they go about their business with their franchise players the way they do. You can put any spin on it you want, but the Jays looks like clown show to everyone outside the Rogers world. Rosenthal is a pretty respected baseball guy.

Every single action the team has made this summer points towards a large reduction in payroll coming possibly as soon as next year is over. I think their are some dark days ahead for us Jays fans, so hopefully we put together another run this year. Jose and Edwin are likely going to walk when they get low-balled (if we aren't in contention, these guys need to be traded), Tulo will be shipped out assuming they can find a taker, and I have a hard time believing Donaldson won't be running out the door when he finally get his free agency after being nickle and dimed for the past 4 years. He's going to want to collect, especially given he was an extremely late bloomer.

Toronto is going to be an absolute circus this summer if the Jays don't start out well and stay in contention. The local market is already frothing at the mouth over a lack of action this summer and Price not being offered anything. Their call in shows are already an absolute gong show and spring training isn't even here yet. Shapiro and Atkins will take all the blame, but we all know whose orders they are simply carrying out.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JayP

Seems like click bait actually. Like was said, the Jays are offering the highest arbitration award ever. This will have no impact on future relations with Donaldson and is just the usual national sportswriters trying to stir the Blue Jays large online presence into a frenzy and get some page views. Happens every off-season.



Right - the Jays are going to trade off two star hitters in a year when they have a championship caliber line-up. It's possible they trade off one of them if things implode early and the Jays don't feel they can sign both guys next off-season, but I don't foresee any scenario where they trade both. It's absolutely hilarious to suggest they are going to trade Tulo/Donaldson on top of that too. Where is all this extra money going then?

Stop drinking the kool aid. Just because Shapiro is here doesn't mean the payroll is dropping down to $90 million. Fools were already claiming that would happen this off-season and the Jays have actually raised payroll (and significantly if you factor in the brutal Canadian dollar).

Well they are not going to resign Bautista or Edwin if they aren't willing to open the wallet, and we all know that isn't going to happen, so they'd be foolish not to trade them. Even if they are contending, I'll guarantee you one of them will be going for that very reason. I can already see the Roger's media spin now. "We needed help with (insert position here), AA severely depleted our minor league systems so we couldn't sacrifice anymore, so we traded from a position of strength to make our team overall stronger".

Blame a guy who is no longer with the team, not have to answer the questions in the offseason on why he wasn't resigned, it's almost too perfect.

That said, cheap or not, the Jays have to move these guys in season if they aren't resigning them, contenders or not. They can't lose two guys like that for nothing to free agency.

[SuperMatt18]

Honestly as long as they get the right return I have no issue moving Bautista or EE.

Bautista will be 36 by the time his new contract kicks in, probably not a guy you want to commit $20M+ per year to for 4 to 5 more years.

Encarnacion will be 34 by the time his new contract kicks in. He would be a little more palatable since he is younger, and will likely just be your full time DH for the length of the deal but could also see why the would move on from him.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

He's basically calling the Blue Jays cheap in that article

Which is dumb because the amount they filed ties the highest ever arb award for players with Donaldson's service time. JayP is right it's just clickbait and column inches.

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Every single action the team has made this summer points towards a large reduction in payroll coming possibly as soon as next year is over.

Huh? How on earth do you figure that? That makes no sense whatsoever. It says nothing of the sort.

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

That said, cheap or not, the Jays have to move these guys in season if they aren't resigning them, contenders or not. They can't lose two guys like that for nothing to free agency.

They wouldn't "lose two guys like that for nothing to free agency" unless they didn't give them a qualifying offer and if they didn't give them a qualifying offer then it means they were really really really bad. I'm not saying that the Jays will keep both of them but I'm 100% sure they'll make a good faith effort to do so.

Yeesh, don't be such a negative nancy. They Jays are a very very good team. Just enjoy that fact.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Honestly as long as they get the right return I have no issue moving Bautista or EE.

Bautista will be 36 by the time his new contract kicks in, probably not a guy you want to commit $20M+ per year to for 4 to 5 more years.

Encarnacion will be 34 by the time his new contract kicks in. He would be a little more palatable since he is younger, and will likely just be your full time DH for the length of the deal but could also see why the would move on from him.

I'd rather keep Bautista over EE. He could play 1st/DH whereas Edwin is done in the field and doesn't want to play it anyways. Baustita is two years older but keeps his body in great shape....... EE not so much.

That's attitude aside, because I think Bautista might be one of the biggest #######s in baseball and his actions cost the Jays on close calls with the umpires.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Which is dumb because the amount they filed ties the highest ever arb award for players with Donaldson's service time. JayP is right it's just clickbait and column inches.



Huh? How on earth do you figure that? That makes no sense whatsoever. It says nothing of the sort.




They wouldn't "lose two guys like that for nothing to free agency" unless they didn't give them a qualifying offer and if they didn't give them a qualifying offer then it means they were really really really bad. I'm not saying that the Jays will keep both of them but I'm 100% sure they'll make a good faith effort to do so.

Yeesh, don't be such a negative nancy. They Jays are a very very good team. Just enjoy that fact.

The article doesn't mention anything about them reducing payroll, but you'd have to be blind if you can't see that the direction they are heading. No long-term contracts (Happ being the longest at 3 years), refusal to consider any player that isn't under team control, Bob McGown and Brunt have also have articles and discussions indicating that is exactly what is being communicated behind closed doors. I'm not saying this is a bad approach, but you have to be willing to spend money when it warrants it and the Jays clearly are not.

I will fully enjoy being a good team next year, but there's no reason this can't be a routine thing if the mandate given to the Jays was to operate like an actual baseball team and not small market team in a city of under 1 million people.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

The Blue Jays added southpaw Daniel Schlereth on a minor league pact. It’s been a while since Schlereth, 29, cracked the bigs — 2012, with Detroit — and he was released by the Cubs last year after a brief stint in the organization. Schlereth was the 26th overall pick in the 2008 draft.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/0...schlereth.html

[lifetime_flamesfan]

Originally Posted by JayP

Seems like click bait actually. Like was said, the Jays are offering the highest arbitration award ever. This will have no impact on future relations with Donaldson and is just the usual national sportswriters trying to stir the Blue Jays large online presence into a frenzy and get some page views. Happens every off-season.



Right - the Jays are going to trade off two star hitters in a year when they have a championship caliber line-up. It's possible they trade off one of them if things implode early and the Jays don't feel they can sign both guys next off-season, but I don't foresee any scenario where they trade both. It's absolutely hilarious to suggest they are going to trade Tulo/Donaldson on top of that too. Where is all this extra money going then?

Stop drinking the kool aid. Just because Shapiro is here doesn't mean the payroll is dropping down to $90 million. Fools were already claiming that would happen this off-season and the Jays have actually raised payroll (and significantly if you factor in the brutal Canadian dollar).

Which kool aid should I stop drinking. The one bring handed out by a respect Baseball Journalist or the one being handed out by the network that owns the Jays. I didn't say anything about Shapiro or the payroll being reduced. I said it seemed silly to draw a line in the sand over $450,000 with your reigning MVP, it's not like its a difference in the millions. Plus it'll be the second time the Jays have taken Donaldson to Arb already, and as Rosenthal said Donaldson is an emotional guy and this might hurt the relationship between the two.

Basically you've got a guy who not only is the reigning MVP, but was your Homerun leader, RBI leader and maybe your teams emotional leader (arguably, but maybe started to take that mantle from Bautista), and the Jays are going to squabble over half a million with him. They should be trying to lock him up longterm if anything.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

He's basically calling the Blue Jays cheap in that article and saying he doesn't understand why they go about their business with their franchise players the way they do. You can put any spin on it you want, but the Jays looks like clown show to everyone outside the Rogers world. Rosenthal is a pretty respected baseball guy.

Or no one cares. I just went to Reddit's very active /r/baseball section - there isn't even a thread about Donaldson going to arbitration. This is unimportant news that is only being talked about because (A) it's January and nothing is happening in the baseball world (until just recently with Davis and Upton signing) and (B) the Jays have a huge online presence and click on anything that involves the team.

Every single action the team has made this summer points towards a large reduction in payroll coming possibly as soon as next year is over. I think their are some dark days ahead for us Jays fans, so hopefully we put together another run this year. Jose and Edwin are likely going to walk when they get low-balled (if we aren't in contention, these guys need to be traded), Tulo will be shipped out assuming they can find a taker, and I have a hard time believing Donaldson won't be running out the door when he finally get his free agency after being nickle and dimed for the past 4 years. He's going to want to collect, especially given he was an extremely late bloomer.

You were talking about how the payroll would be $70 million this season two months ago and the Jays have actually raised payroll. You're just shifting to the vague future after being proven wrong already. Basically your argument is "they brought in Shapiro who didn't have a lot of money to work with in Cleveland so he won't have a lot of money to work with in Toronto".

When you talk about Donaldson being nickled and dimed during his arb years you clearly don't understand how compensation works in the MLB. Everyone gets nickled and dimed in their arb years.

Toronto is going to be an absolute circus this summer if the Jays don't start out well and stay in contention. The local market is already frothing at the mouth over a lack of action this summer and Price not being offered anything. Their call in shows are already an absolute gong show and spring training isn't even here yet. Shapiro and Atkins will take all the blame, but we all know whose orders they are simply carrying out.

Who cares? The team shouldn't be run to please a bunch of bandwagon fans. The club as a whole was lacking depth in a major way and that's been addressed very well. People love to just consider who the starters are, but forget that it's a long, long season and multiple players are going to have long term injuries. That's the nature of the game. 95% of the fans couldn't care less who the back-ups are, but when they are crap like Mike McCoy or Kawasaki it can really sink your team.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by lifetime_flamesfan

Which kool aid should I stop drinking. The one bring handed out by a respect Baseball Journalist or the one being handed out by the network that owns the Jays. I didn't say anything about Shapiro or the payroll being reduced. I said it seemed silly to draw a line in the sand over $450,000 with your reigning MVP, it's not like its a difference in the millions. Plus it'll be the second time the Jays have taken Donaldson to Arb already, and as Rosenthal said Donaldson is an emotional guy and this might hurt the relationship between the two.

Basically you've got a guy who not only is the reigning MVP, but was your Homerun leader, RBI leader and maybe your teams emotional leader (arguably, but maybe started to take that mantle from Bautista), and the Jays are going to squabble over half a million with him. They should be trying to lock him up longterm if anything.

You said that the Jays are going to trade away Bautista, Encarnacion, and Tulo/Donaldson with-in a year and a half. That's $40-50 million in payroll. So, yes, you said payroll was going to be reduced.

It's actually hilarious this is even a topic. A reporter goes online and posts a vague article about how this MIGHT affect things in the future and everyone loses their mind. This wasn't a report that Donaldson was angry with the Jays treatment. It was a reporter trying to connect dots saying that an emotional player on the field might be emotional off the field so he might be mad about going to arbitration. It's completely baseless and doesn't have any historical precedent.

Arbitration after a monster 2013 season didn't seem to hurt the relationship between Chris Davis and the Orioles. Why is this any different?

[bomber317]

I think what some people are missing is that Hockey and Baseball arbitration is very different.

The fact that the arbitrator has to pick 1 of the 2 numbers submitted changes the process. Also, there are lot more stats to back up the arguments for each number submitted. Both the team and the player know what they are getting into once they go to arbitration.

There are no surprises to the team or player in terms of performance arguments, all of the stats are out there. So much so, that there are websites that predict arbitration salaries to a decent accuracy.

So I find arbitration in baseball doesn't damage the relationship between the team and player unlike the NHL. It is a process used to extract a fair salary based on past performance.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JayP

You were talking about how the payroll would be $70 million this season two months ago and the Jays have actually raised payroll. You're just shifting to the vague future after being proven wrong already. Basically your argument is "they brought in Shapiro who didn't have a lot of money to work with in Cleveland so he won't have a lot of money to work with in Toronto".

That's quite the fabrication. I never once said the Jays payroll would be 70M. I said that they would keep their 2016 payroll practically the same as it was to finish the year in 2015 and really start to scale down in 2017 when all the big names are off the books because their below market options expired which were no-brainers to pick up. From there I said that the Jays would shift their payroll back down to mid to bottom third of the league where they've historically been. I'd still bet everything I own that will be the case come 2018. I never put any numbers on it, but 70M is far below what it will be.

I said for 2016 the Jays would pick up all the options on Bautista, Dickey, Encarnacion, resign Estrada, sign a mid-tier starter to shut people up, and make one last run for it before they shed salary. That is pretty much verbatim what has happened.

There's multiple highly respected journalists in Canada (not with Rogers) and outside of Canada (MLB Network, Fox, SI) taking shots at the way the Jays do business and run their franchise. From AA taking his ball and going home to the Price debacle, to the "diving through the dumpster for bullpen arms" comments, to the Donaldson arbitration non-sense, yet because you went on Reddit "this isn't an issue". Give me a break. The Jays reputation is dirt around the league and when the spotlight was on them for the first time in two decades they didn't mend fences, they made it worse.

Your comment that the Jays don't put a baseball team on the field to please bandwagon fans is off base. The bandwagon fans aren't the ones complaining. They jumped back on in August last year and have nothing but positive memories. The ones who are complaining are the people who've been fans for 20+ years and have been subject to the clown show that has transpired who actually believed that if they showed Rogers with their wallet what a good team in Toronto would do, that seasons like last year wouldn't be the outlier in a constant string of futility. Rogers has basically spat in their face, not reinvested a dime of last year's profits, and all signs are pointing towards a return to mediocrity in 2017.

I would like to change my tune. I really would, but the ownership of this team hasn't given me one single reason to change it. One thing is for sure though, next season will be an interesting one. The Jays will either contend or we are going to witness #### show like we've never seen around a baseball team in Canada. Expectations are high, more people are invested in the success of the team than ever before, and there is already an underlying hatred for Rogers (especially in Toronto) before the first pitch is ever even thrown.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

That's quite the fabrication. I never once said the Jays payroll would be 70M. I said that they would keep their 2016 payroll practically the same as it was to finish the year in 2015 and really start to scale down in 2017 when all the big names are off the books because their below market options expired which were no-brainers to pick up. From there I said that the Jays would shift their payroll back down to mid to bottom third of the league where they've historically been. I'd still bet everything I own that will be the case come 2018. I never put any numbers on it, but 70M is far below what it will be.

I said for 2016 the Jays would pick up all the options on Bautista, Dickey, Encarnacion, resign Estrada, sign a mid-tier starter to shut people up, and make one last run for it before they shed salary. That is pretty much verbatim what has happened.

You do realize that AA and Paul Beeston don't set the budgets, right? Why exactly are you so sure they are slashing the budget (beyond hiring someone who worked for a small market team - which is evidence of nothing)?

There's multiple highly respected journalists in Canada (not with Rogers) and outside of Canada (MLB Network, Fox, SI) taking shots at the way the Jays do business and run their franchise. From AA taking his ball and going home to the Price debacle, to the "diving through the dumpster for bullpen arms" comments, to the Donaldson arbitration non-sense, yet because you went on Reddit "this isn't an issue". Give me a break. The Jays reputation is dirt around the league and when the spotlight was on them for the first time in two decades they didn't mend fences, they made it worse.

First of all, no one around the league cares about AA. Jays fans & the Canadian media treat him like some god now, but ask other fans and he's just another guy. The guy was basically on the edge of being canned and traded away the farm to make the playoffs to try and save his job- that's his reputation around the league. When he left, most people around the league didn't really blink.

There was never a Price debacle. That was invented by people who thought the Jays could somehow get Price if they offered him $30mil per season for 5 years instead of 7 - ignoring the fact that it's a $60million dollar difference and not even in the ballpark.

Looking for cheap bullpen arms is something every good team does. Again, you make this ridiculous deal of things like that and then the Jays acquire an elite reliever in Drew Storen. It's a long off-season and even though you over-react to everything, everyone else waits to see how the entire off-season plays out. The contracts handed out to relievers this off-season were ridiculous and to be disappointed the Jays didn't partake is just dumb.

Again, if the Donaldson "non-sense" (your word for taking a player to arbitration) is such a big deal, why is no one in a large baseball community even talking about it? The entire issue was created by someone (without any inside information) trying to create content when there isn't any in January. Basically, your argument is that the Jays should just pay him whatever he wants since it's only 450k. Setting that precedent sounds like a really good way to improve their alleged terrible reputation with other teams around the league - they all love inflating player salaries.

Your comment that the Jays don't put a baseball team on the field to please bandwagon fans is off base. The bandwagon fans aren't the ones complaining. They jumped back on in August last year and have nothing but positive memories. The ones who are complaining are the people who've been fans for 20+ years and have been subject to the clown show that has transpired who actually believed that if they showed Rogers with their wallet what a good team in Toronto would do, that seasons like last year wouldn't be the outlier in a constant string of futility. Rogers has basically spat in their face, not reinvested a dime of last year's profits, and all signs are pointing towards a return to mediocrity in 2017.

I would like to change my tune. I really would, but the ownership of this team hasn't given me one single reason to change it. One thing is for sure though, next season will be an interesting one. The Jays will either contend or we are going to witness #### show like we've never seen around a baseball team in Canada. Expectations are high, more people are invested in the success of the team than ever before, and there is already an underlying hatred for Rogers (especially in Toronto) before the first pitch is ever even thrown.

Basically it comes down to you wanting Rogers to open up the pocket books and spend like crazy because the team raked in cash for a couple months last season. Ignoring the fact that to spend that money, you have to get locked into 5+ year deals with very little assurance that revenues will be that high for the duration of those deals.

If the Jays keep winning, great - it works out for everyone. If the Jays don't win (which happens every year to championship favorites), then the attendance and viewership numbers drop back to mediocrity, but the owners are still committed to hundreds of millions of salary. It's pretty obvious to see the risk from Rogers perspective.

If the Jays make the playoffs for 3 straight seasons, you have a point. But basically you want a budget based off last year's revenues only and to ignore all the years before. It's nice to want this as a fan, but it has zero basis in the realities of business.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JayP

You do realize that AA and Paul Beeston don't set the budgets, right? Why exactly are you so sure they are slashing the budget (beyond hiring someone who worked for a small market team - which is evidence of nothing)?



First of all, no one around the league cares about AA. Jays fans & the Canadian media treat him like some god now, but ask other fans and he's just another guy. The guy was basically on the edge of being canned and traded away the farm to make the playoffs to try and save his job- that's his reputation around the league. When he left, most people around the league didn't really blink.

There was never a Price debacle. That was invented by people who thought the Jays could somehow get Price if they offered him $30mil per season for 5 years instead of 7 - ignoring the fact that it's a $60million dollar difference and not even in the ballpark.

Looking for cheap bullpen arms is something every good team does. Again, you make this ridiculous deal of things like that and then the Jays acquire an elite reliever in Drew Storen. It's a long off-season and even though you over-react to everything, everyone else waits to see how the entire off-season plays out. The contracts handed out to relievers this off-season were ridiculous and to be disappointed the Jays didn't partake is just dumb.

Again, if the Donaldson "non-sense" (your word for taking a player to arbitration) is such a big deal, why is no one in a large baseball community even talking about it? The entire issue was created by someone (without any inside information) trying to create content when there isn't any in January. Basically, your argument is that the Jays should just pay him whatever he wants since it's only 450k. Setting that precedent sounds like a really good way to improve their alleged terrible reputation with other teams around the league - they all love inflating player salaries.



Basically it comes down to you wanting Rogers to open up the pocket books and spend like crazy because the team raked in cash for a couple months last season. Ignoring the fact that to spend that money, you have to get locked into 5+ year deals with very little assurance that revenues will be that high for the duration of those deals.

If the Jays keep winning, great - it works out for everyone. If the Jays don't win (which happens every year to championship favorites), then the attendance and viewership numbers drop back to mediocrity, but the owners are still committed to hundreds of millions of salary. It's pretty obvious to see the risk from Rogers perspective.

If the Jays make the playoffs for 3 straight seasons, you have a point. But basically you want a budget based off last year's revenues only and to ignore all the years before. It's nice to want this as a fan, but it has zero basis in the realities of business.

See that is where you are wrong. My desire for the Blue Jays to spend has nothing to do with last year's results. I've been make the argument for the better part of a decade. It has everything to do with the Jays being in the third largest market in baseball and having a fan base across and entire country, but running your team like a small market team (in the Stadium they were given for pennies on the dollar). This team is run in a method closer to the Tampa Bay Rays than they are a big market team which is completely absurd. The only difference is from time to time Rogers gives in to public pressures and spends for a couple of years (never enough to win it all though) and destroys the prospect pool in the process, while TB stays the course and benefits every 2 or 3 years.

I don't expect them to spend like Boston and New York, but I expect them to be consistently in the top ten, and when the opportunity presents itself, be willing to go over their BS Rogers imposed budget. Price is the perfect example of that. Argue about the merits of his contract all you want, but when a guy like that is willing to play in your market, you make it happen, or at least try to. The Jays wouldn't have signed Price regardless of the Boston offer and anyone who suggests otherwise is fooling themselves. You want to talk about Storen. The Jays are giving up some minor league prospects to be named later because they refused to take on Storen's contract unless Washington ate the difference between what Revere made and what Storen made. That is an absolute joke. They are desperate for some bullpen arm and they are more worried about making up a 1.8M dollar shortfall in salaries because they can't go over Rogers imposed salary cap by $1. The Jays have shameful history of such nonsense. Just two years ago they had Erwin Santana signed and he changed his mind last second after he found out the Jays were asking players to restructure their salary so they could sign him. Not signing Santana ended up being a windfall, but the point still remains.


You keep talking about the Jays operate like a normal business so these frugal moves makes sense. Yeah, I agree they are run like a normal business, and that's what the problem is. MLB teams are not normal businesses. There's two reasons why people own major league teams and none of them have to do with daily operations. First and foremost, MLB is an investment. The owners want to keep building the value of the team so they can someday cash out with a huge ROI. The majority of the teams could care less if they ever turned an operating profit. So long as they aren't losing money and the value of the franchise is increasing, they are happy. Wins and prestige are what build the value. The second reason MLB teams are that it's simply a dick measuring contest between rich men. There's a reason why the NFL does not allow for corporate ownership, and there's a reason why there are only two teams in MLB that are corporately owned and both are not very successful franchises from a purely baseball point of view.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

See that is where you are wrong. My desire for the Blue Jays to spend has nothing to do with last year's results. I've been make the argument for the better part of a decade. It has everything to do with the Jays being in the third largest market in baseball and having a fan base across and entire country, but running your team like a small market team (in the Stadium they were given for pennies on the dollar). This team is run in a method closer to the Tampa Bay Rays than they are a big market team which is completely absurd. The only difference is from time to time Rogers gives in to public pressures and spends for a couple of years (never enough to win it all though) and destroys the prospect pool in the process, while TB stays the course and benefits every 2 or 3 years.

I don't expect them to spend like Boston and New York, but I expect them to be consistently in the top ten, and when the opportunity presents itself, be willing to go over their BS Rogers imposed budget. .

OK so by that standard.

Opening day roster salaries:
2015: #10
2014: #10
2013: #9


Prior to that they were much lower but the last 3 years they have been in the top 10 - which shows a consistent pattern. So what's the issue?

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

OK so by that standard.

Opening day roster salaries:
2015: #10
2014: #10
2013: #9


Prior to that they were much lower but the last 3 years they have been in the top 10 - which shows a consistent pattern. So what's the issue?

That pattern is exactly what the problem is. They spend 5-7 years sucking with a bottom third payroll until fan support and attendance hit Lows. Jays fans start bitching to the point where it is negatively effecting the Rogers Brand. In response Rogers will open the Wallet and trade made all their high end prospects to bring in immediate help but never enough to win the whole thing (they start seasons with 1-2 major holes that could easily be fixed by spenimg an extra 10-15m.) they ride that waive until those deals run out, and start from scratch again.

They need to completely act like a small market, build from within, and Just admit it to their fans, or join the big boys through free agency. They are in in the middle of the two and it absolutely kills the franchise. Two steps forward, three steps back. When you add the complete spins stories they run through sportsnet, it creates a toxic atmosphere.

This whole spending era of the past 3 years started as a direct response to the Jays fans completely having enough. It was to the point where you could cut the tension with a knife in Toronto. No on could have cared less about the Jays. They went out an gutted their system for a bunch of big names and it never made any sense because as a whole the team was still full of holes. Thankfully they fixed the situation last year (personally I think they could have easily fixed the problem in 2014 at the trade deadline but Rogers would not increase the budget).

Now that they have a good team and have the funds to keep it together and add though, they'll repeat the process and be a bottom third spender.

I see people throw the 9 and 10 in spending around, but that's really not a good representation. There's not much difference between what #9 spends in MLB through 17-18. There is a huge leap in the top 7 though.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

That pattern is exactly what the problem is. They spend 5-7 years sucking with a bottom third payroll until fan support and attendance hit Lows. Jays fans start bitching to the point where it is negatively effecting the Rogers Brand. In response Rogers will open the Wallet and trade made all their high end prospects to bring in immediate help but never enough to win the whole thing (they start seasons with 1-2 major holes that could easily be fixed by spenimg an extra 10-15m.) they ride that waive until those deals run out, and start from scratch again.

They need to completely act like a small market, build from within, and Just admit it to their fans, or join the big boys through free agency. They are in in the middle of the two and it absolutely kills the franchise. Two steps forward, three steps back. When you add the complete spins stories they run through sportsnet, it creates a toxic atmosphere.

This whole spending era of the past 3 years started as a direct response to the Jays fans completely having enough. It was to the point where you could cut the tension with a knife in Toronto. No on could have cared less about the Jays. They went out an gutted their system for a bunch of big names and it never made any sense because as a whole the team was still full of holes. Thankfully they fixed the situation last year (personally I think they could have easily fixed the problem in 2014 at the trade deadline but Rogers would not increase the budget).

Now that they have a good team and have the funds to keep it together and add though, they'll repeat the process and be a bottom third spender.

I see people throw the 9 and 10 in spending around, but that's really not a good representation. There's not much difference between what #9 spends in MLB through 17-18. There is a huge leap in the top 7 though.

You are the one that said top 10.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Sanchez says he's put on 25 pounds of mass in an interview on sportsnet this morning. Hopefully that improves his stamina and he can take the reigns as a starter.

[Jason14h]

I'm just amazed anyone can argue on the side of Rogers for a team that has been the least successful team in the majors over the past 25 years.

Whatever they are doing, it sure hasn't worked !

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I'm just amazed anyone can argue on the side of Rogers for a team that has been the least successful team in the majors over the past 25 years.

Whatever they are doing, it sure hasn't worked !

Rogers has only owned the team since 2000.