Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I must have missed those posts.

I started going through posts as well (Well, skimming every third or fourth page). I did find one, but it was quoting the pope.

Likely, I was just putting the sum of what I saw here and elsewhere after the attacks into one pot. Comments like that were made by people, that is undeniable but a place like the Internet will have many strange cats floating around. But I can't say if they were also made here without looking more.

And you don't need a cartoonist, Polak. Look at their art, it's awful. You could probably get close to their art level just by trying.

Originally Posted by Nyah

What would this prove? What would it accomplish?

What does the cartoon of Alan Kurdi prove or accomplish. Shock for shock's sake. I don't agree with it, but it is very much in the same vein as what Charlie Hebdo does.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by blankall

Hebdo, which is based on far left principles

Uhhhh what?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They certainly deserve to be called out and exposed as the racist xenophobes that they are though (and have always been). Hiding being "satire" doesn't make it any more tasteful.

Don't they savagely attack and ridicule traditional French institutions and beliefs as well? One of their favourite targets is the National Front party. Hardly seems xenophobic to me.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Nyah

What would this prove? What would it accomplish?

If it convinces just one of those tool bags that what they're doing is wrong, then it would be a success.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Uhhhh what?

Charlie Hebdo are self-avowed far-leftists. They've always taken glee in mocking the far-right National Front in France, as well as all other traditional bastions of the right, including the Catholic Church.

They're absolutely a product of the French intellectual leftist tradition. Attacking all traditional beliefs, all sources of authority, all institutions, figuratively (and sometimes literally) taking a crap on all bourgeois social norms. It's a far cry from the progressive left in North America, but there's more to the left in Western society than cultural sensitivity, identity politics, and environmentalism. The European leftist tradition is far more radical.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by polak

If it convinces just one of those tool bags that what they're doing is wrong, then it would be a success.

It won't. They won't care. If it's clever enough they may even find it funny.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Charlie Hebdo are self-avowed far-leftists. They've always taken glee in mocking the far-right National Front in France, as well as all other traditional bastions of the right, including the Catholic Church.

They're absolutely a product of the French intellectual leftist tradition. Attacking all traditional beliefs, all sources of authority, all institutions, figuratively (and sometimes literally) taking a crap on all bourgeois social norms. It's a far cry from the progressive left in North America, but there's more to the left in Western society than cultural sensitivity, identity politics, and environmentalism. The European leftist tradition is far more radical.

But attacking Islam makes you racist and therefore right wing.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It won't. They won't care. If it's clever enough they may even find it funny.

The key would be having accurate representations of their friends. It's pretty morbid to even think of ideas for this comic but I think I have a decent one.

I'll be seeing if there are any takers on reddit later.

[nik-]

Polak's Jihad

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by nik-

But attacking Islam makes you racist and therefore right wing.

Attacking Islam doesn't make someone racist (although it could make them a bigot depending on what they are actually saying).

Charlie Hebdo's anti-Islam angle is almost exclusively towards Middle Eastern and Africans, and their caricatures tend to promote those racial stereotypes and images.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

If it's actually funny, I think they should publish it. That's a great idea. Basically this is John Cleese's eulogy for Graham Chapman.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

If it's actually funny, I think they should publish it.

Do you think this one was funny?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by nik-

But attacking Islam makes you racist and therefore right wing.

It really is absurd...

Left/Right is supposed to be based on your views on government involvement. Instead we see random sets of beliefs packaged into political parties.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What? No, the real target was named specifically as Alan Kurdi.

No, dude. They are attacking the sentimental reaction to his death that resulted in the unchecked, and heedless mass immigration of people with radically different cultural and moral backgrounds.

Symbolism, dude. Symbolism.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Do you think this one was funny?

Nope. Honestly I feel like I must be missing something because it doesn't even qualify as a joke. My suspicion is that it's pure shock and outrage trolling.

It does raise the interesting question as to whether provocateurs, or trolls if you prefer, who deliberately hyperbolize things have value in the arena of free speech. There's a big brouhaha on twitter the past week about their unverifying Milo Yiannopoulos, who is precisely this sort of character - deliberately provocative and offensive and flamboyant (and also unabashedly right wing). Is that sort of thing something that has value in an society dedicated to free expression? I'm honestly not sure.

I'd love to play that argument out. Unfortunately it would result in walls of text and some passive aggressive posting on your part about having to read about the nuance of some topic you're only vaguely interested in.

[Da_Chief]

Thats sick. I don't care what your agenda is but to use a 2 year boy who drowned to make your point shows their character. Just like the attacks on them, this is sickening.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Thats sick. I don't care what your agenda is but to use a 2 year boy who drowned to make your point shows their character. Just like the attacks on them, this is sickening.

The death of real people is a far greater tragedy than someone being offended because of a tasteless cartoon.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Just like the attacks on them, this is sickening.

Probably going to want to re-think your phrasing there, chief... Drawing a cartoon is not equivalent to mass murder.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Just like the attacks on them, this is sickening.

Nope. Not even close.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by peter12

No, dude. They are attacking the sentimental reaction to his death that resulted in the unchecked, and heedless mass immigration of people with radically different cultural and moral backgrounds.

Symbolism, dude. Symbolism.

The target of the cartoon wasn't the rapists in Cologne as you stated, it was the migrants in general. As evidence by the depiction of a 3 year old boy who drowned and the suggestion he would have grown up to be a rapist.

It's not symbolism. It's just racism.