[News] Upd: Drouin decides to sit out until trade is completed. Lightning suspend him.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I feel like this needs repeating.

Drouin's not having a problem breaking into the NHL. He's having a problem breaking into probably the deepest forward corps in the league as a 20 year old.

Is that the same top forward group that has Filppula, Killorn, Namestinkov, Callahan and Brown in the top 9?

Those 5 players have combined for 24 goals and 50 assists in 194 games and all are in the top 9 in ATOI (if you take Drouin out). I realize there's a couple of highly paid vets in there, but if it were me and Drouin was that good, I would be pushing one of the many underachievers down the lineup to make room for him. Drouin should represent the future, whereas most of the aforementioned five players likely won't even be in the league by the time Drouin hits his prime. It's not like any of those players are helping the team win now either, so that's not an argument.

This is either a case of 'Drouin's not good enough' or 'the coach is being unfair' IMO. I can't say for certain because I don't watch the games. To say that the forward group is too good is stretching it. If it's the first one though, I would be very concerned if I was Yzerman.

[ssjshmo]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Detroit had been great for the team, but not for young players. They haven't had a young player show as much as Drouin since, well, Larkin...

Drouin was also given a chance last year to show his skill through 70 games with average TOI of 13:14

Larkin has embraced his opportunity through 39 games, averages 16:54.

There's quite a difference in TOI and does suggest affecting production opportunities but again with such high skill that Drouin carries he should have been able to prove himself.


Also, I'm probably still just butt hurt about Drouin not producing because I picked him last year. Lol

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ssjshmo

Is Detroit considered the exception to this new NHL development path?
Tartar and Nyquist are always used as their prime examples. Granted neither of them went 3rd overall

Nyquist was drafted #121 overall.

Tatar was drafted #60 overall.

Neither were top offensive talents when they were drafted. Both were a lot further from being NHL ready than Drouin was. Players like Tatar and Nyquist need to learn a more well rounded games, because they don't have the pure offensive firepower that a player like Drouin has.

The whole Detroit long term development program is a bit of a myth too. The simple fact of the matter is that Detroit has been so successful for so long that they don't draft high, and aren't going to get NHL ready high end prospects. Instead, they are forced to squeeze talent out of the later rounds. Detroit is very good at finding players with potential but require development.

As others have stated when they get a talent like Larkin, who was their highest drafted pick since Martin Lapointe in 1991, they fast track him, as they should.

Basically, what I'm saying is that Detroit's long development program is out of necessity, not choice, because they simply rarely draft high enough to get high end NHL ready prospects.

[saillias]

I was over hearing about the Detroit model 2 years ago. No recent championships, no more a "model" than Pittsburgh is at this point. Let it go already. Was keeping Tatar, Nyquist buried in the AHL good management or just OBC-style management that ensured guys like Tootoo and Cleary got ice time first.

[northcrunk]

It seems like there is a coaching/management issue in Tampa. Maybe Yzerman is an old school hard a## which really grinds the younger players coming up now. This is the second 'superstar' or 'future superstar' they have had issues with. I have a feeling Stamkos is leaving in the summer for the same reasons.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ssjshmo

Drouin was also given a chance last year to show his skill through 70 games with average TOI of 13:14

Larkin has embraced his opportunity through 39 games, averages 16:54.

There's quite a difference in TOI and does suggest affecting production opportunities but again with such high skill that Drouin carries he should have been able to prove himself.


Also, I'm probably still just butt hurt about Drouin not producing because I picked him last year. Lol

Drouin put up 32 points in 70 games last year, while getting minimal ice time, as a rookie. Those numbers are really good and should warrant more ice time.

If you watch Drouin play, his style of play requires solid top end finishers to be successful. He has shades of Gaudreau in his style of play. No one outside of Tampa really knows what's going on there. Maybe he's offended the coaches, the management, or just doesn't get along with the other star players. Whatever the reason, Drouin shouldn't waste his career grinding it out on 3rd lines or in the AHL. The guy has incredible hands and speed. He's not a grinder. It's okay if he doesn't have the perfect two way game.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Is that the same top forward group that has Filppula, Killorn, Namestinkov, Callahan and Brown in the top 9?

Those 5 players have combined for 24 goals and 50 assists in 194 games and all are in the top 9 in ATOI (if you take Drouin out). I realize there's a couple of highly paid vets in there, but if it were me and Drouin was that good, I would be pushing one of the many underachievers down the lineup to make room for him. Drouin should represent the future, whereas most of the aforementioned five players likely won't even be in the league by the time Drouin hits his prime. It's not like any of those players are helping the team win now either, so that's not an argument.

This is either a case of 'Drouin's not good enough' or 'the coach is being unfair' IMO. I can't say for certain because I don't watch the games. To say that the forward group is too good is stretching it. If it's the first one though, I would be very concerned if I was Yzerman.

Tampa's strange scoring woes aside, Drouin is basically in the worst situation to break into the league. If he's drafted to literally almost any other team he gets 15 minutes a night. He just doesn't have that luxury on Tampa.

Killorn, Filpulla, Callahan are established NHL players who play at all ends of the ice. They're complete players. Drouin isn't knocking one of those guys out, unless he simply dominates. No one from the draft class has dominated to the extent that they would displace one of those players.

Namestikov was a PPG player in the AHL and is 24 years old. Again, he's just a completely different player. Seasoned. Drouin was never really going to displace him either. And after that is where Drouin is slotting in, at around 13 minutes a night between the 3rd and 4th lines. Drouin's battling with Marchessault and Brown and yeah he's been given a very short leash.

My riposte to you would be to name 5 teams that Drouin would have an even tougher time breaking into the top 9. Going to be difficult.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

I actually understand where Jonathan Drouin is coming from and don't think he is out of line.

The NHL has changed. If you look at the figures, forwards peak at 24-25 and usually go through a fairly sharp decline at 27. This idea that every young player has to learn a solid two way game and pay his dues in the minors simply doesn't jive with reality anymore.

Fair enough. But by that reasoning, Stamkos is in decline and should be cut lose.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Fair enough. But by that reasoning, Stamkos is in decline and should be cut lose.

You don't cut him loose, you good have a hard time telling anyone he's got better years ahead of him than what he did a couple years ago.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Fair enough. But by that reasoning, Stamkos is in decline and should be cut lose.

Both his shooting percentage and the number of scoring chances he's been getting are in enormous decline this season. It's not a sure thing but it's a definite question mark.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Fair enough. But by that reasoning, Stamkos is in decline and should be cut lose.

I think Yzerman would tend to agree with that assessment.

Stamkos is almost certainly not going to be worth the money. His days as an elite goal scorer look to be pretty numbered but no doubt he'll be paid like one.

Yzerman is is facing the basic situation of having only enough money for one of Stamkos or Hedman. I know who I would keep.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Fair enough. But by that reasoning, Stamkos is in decline and should be cut lose.

That may be exactly what's going on already...

Stamkos does not look like the 90+ player he was, and Tampa may, either purposely or due to the circumstances they are creating, be cutting him loose. Tampa certainly doesn't seem to be treating Stamkos like a franchise player anymore, and that may result in him leaving.

[dino7c]

When 29 NHL teams would put you on their roster in a heartbeat wouldn't you be pissed about riding a bus in the AHL

[ScorchyScorch]

You just know Stamkos and Drouin will both catch fire if/when they move elsewhere.

We can turn around his 2-way game I'm sure. With a similar player in Gaudreau and other young guys like Backs and Bouma who have the 200 foot game figured out, he'd have some good influences.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Tampa's strange scoring woes aside, Drouin is basically in the worst situation to break into the league. If he's drafted to literally almost any other team he gets 15 minutes a night. He just doesn't have that luxury on Tampa.

Killorn, Filpulla, Callahan are established NHL players who play at all ends of the ice. They're complete players. Drouin isn't knocking one of those guys out, unless he simply dominates. No one from the draft class has dominated to the extent that they would displace one of those players.

Namestikov was a PPG player in the AHL and is 24 years old. Again, he's just a completely different player. Seasoned. Drouin was never really going to displace him either. And after that is where Drouin is slotting in, at around 13 minutes a night between the 3rd and 4th lines. Drouin's battling with Marchessault and Brown and yeah he's been given a very short leash.

My riposte to you would be to name 5 teams that Drouin would have an even tougher time breaking into the top 9. Going to be difficult.

Tampa is deeper than most teams at forward, it's true. I have no doubt Drouin would be getting 15 min a night with 80% of the teams out there. That doesn't mean anything in regards to his situation in Tampa though, given the extraordinary struggles of half of their forwards.

There's no reason guys like Callahan, Killorn and Filppula couldn't contribute in more defensive roles if their acumen is so strong. Put them on the 3rd line and use them in a shutdown role if they're so good, it's not like they are scoring. Reading what Tampa fans have to say, they are flabbergasted that those three get so many opportunities on the PP and top two lines while Drouin gets nothing. I guess they've been just brutal all year, not even snake bitten, just contributing nothing offensively at all. Even if Namestnikov was ppg in the AHL and even if he's slightly better than Drouin at the moment, I would still give priority to Drouin... IF he truly is as good as they say. The difference between Drouin and Namestnikov can't be the difference between winning and losing unless Drouin is just THAT bad.

He can't be as good as people say AND not be able to crack that lineup in it's current form. It's not last year anymore, the forwards are playing like ass and the team is struggling. It is literally the perfect time to ease a young, prodigious player into the lineup, if nothing else other than to do something different and shake things up. What they are doing now is clearly not working, and stuffing Drouin into the AHL isn't going to solve their woes but it looks like it will be the final blow and they will lose his services permanently as a result. If he pans out as some expected, it could very well be another St.Louis situation, just in reverse this time for Tampa, unless they can get a great return of course. More than likely, it will be a bunch of lotto tickets and prospects that probably will not pan out.

[heep223]

Alex Killorn is not a top 6 forward, he's a perfect 3rd liner. There is absolutely room for Drouin as their #2 LW.

[sureLoss]

McKenzie:

http://www.tsn.ca/so-many-questions-...drama-1.418988

How many teams are interested in trading for Drouin? How many of those teams are a possible fit with the Lightning and what does Yzerman expect to get in return?

I believe there are upwards of a dozen NHL teams with varying degrees of interest (please note emphasis on “varying degrees”) in Drouin.

Alphabetically listed, I’d say: Anaheim, Calgary, Colorado, Columbus, Montreal, Nashville, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, Ottawa, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Vancouver and Winnipeg, among others.


Some of those teams may be just kicking tires. And, quite frankly, I’d be shocked, and then some, if the Lightning were to trade Drouin within their division and perhaps even the Eastern Conference. So if I were the Canadiens or Senators, for example, as much as Drouin is precisely the type of player they need, I wouldn’t be holding my breath.
As one Eastern Conference club executive told me: “He’s going to the West unless an Eastern team makes the very best offer.”
Not impossible he ends up in the East but maybe less likely.


As for fits, the sense seems to be Yzerman could go in a number of different directions. He could look for a young player of similar value or relative stature – if it’s Calgary, perhaps Sam Bennett; if it’s Vancouver, maybe Bo Horvat – but the Flames and Canucks may not be inclined to go down that road.

Or Yzerman could look to fill a very specific need – a quality puck-moving defenceman. In which case, teams such as Anaheim, St. Louis, Nashville and Winnipeg would be logical trading partners and perhaps Colorado would not (the Avs need to acquire defencemen, not move them).

Some teams are a little wary that Drouin hasn’t established himself as a regular NHL player, but most subscribe to the following view from one club executive: “He is a young player with unrealized potential and someone will give him a chance.”

Many of the executives I talked to believe Drouin could still be an elite NHL player, which of course is why the Lightning has to be so very careful if and when they trade him.

[Poe969]

I honestly wonder what the Flames could give to make this deal happen. I also think the Avs are going to throw everything they can at the bolts to make it happen.

[MrMastodonFarm]

if it’s Calgary, perhaps Sam Bennett;

No thanks, bye bye.

[codynw]

Yea, no way I'd be happy with a Bennett for Drouin trade. Not even a little bit.