Russian SU-24 shot down by Turkey.

[dammage79]

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/is...in-iraq-syria/

Russian Market ‏@russian_market 16m16 minutes ago
#FastFact This is the first Russian military jet shot down by NATO forces

Zaid Benjamin ‏@zaidbenjamin 28m28 minutes ago
The plane hadn’t violated Turkish airspace and was at an altitude of 6,000 meters - Russian MoD


A hair raising moment. Could send Putin into a fit.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

If the plane was actually in Turkish airspace, then so be it.

Otherwise, I think it's time to have a little talk with Turkey about their protection of ISIS.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

If the plane was actually in Turkish airspace, then so be it.

Otherwise, I think it's time to have a little talk with Turkey about their protection of ISIS.

It's a bit odd IMO. A Nato country is aware of military ops by Russia in and out of Syria and they shoot a plane down? Seems a little he said she said at the moment as to where the plane actually was. It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the NATO nations react and more importantly how Russia handles this.

[driveway]

The SU-24 is an older, variable sweep-wing (Think the F-14 from Top Gun) fighter aircraft.

Spoiler!

Designed in the 1960's, it entered service in 1974, the US equivalent would probably be the F-111 Aardvark, which was retired in the late 1990's.

Spoiler!

Apparently it was shot down by Turkish F-16s. Turkey has one of the best Air Forces in the world and their F-16C/Ds would absolutely devour an SU-24.

It is worth noting that Syria operates the SU-24 as well as Russia, and Turkey is claiming they notified the Russian jet several times before firing. Apparently both crewmembers of the SU-24 ejected safely.

[Thor]

I'm getting so suspicious of Putin, part of me thinks he wanted to push the boundary so to speak like he's been doing all over with submarines and jets getting escorted out of airspace all over NATO nations.

This time though instead of a escort out, his plane gets shot down. I bet he's excited about this, another excuse to lie to his people about NATO aggression against peaceful mother Russia.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by driveway

The SU-24 is an older, variable sweep-wing (Think the F-14 from Top Gun) fighter aircraft.

Spoiler!

Designed in the 1960's, it entered service in 1974, the US equivalent would probably be the F-111 Aardvark, which was retired in the late 1990's.

Spoiler!

Apparently it was shot down by Turkish F-16s. Turkey has one of the best Air Forces in the world and their F-16C/Ds would absolutely devour an SU-24.

It is worth noting that Syria operates the SU-24 as well as Russia, and Turkey is claiming they notified the Russian jet several times before firing. Apparently both crewmembers of the SU-24 ejected safely.

So if the Russians would have picked a plane to lose, this would be what they'd pick?

As for picking sides, Erdogan isn't any better than Putin.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Itse

So if the Russians would have picked a plane to lose, this would be what they'd pick?

Pretty much.

Russia also has heavy bombers hitting Syria: TU-95s which are the Russian equivalent of the B-52, TU-22Ms, which are like an older version of the B-1 Lancer and they've used their TU-160s in combat for the very first time. The TU-160 is a little like a sized-up B-1 Lancer, though it's mostly designed to launch stand-off cruise missiles and nuclear weapons.

Russia also has fighters in the area, SU-24s like the one that was shot down, SU-27s which are the Russian equivalent to the F-15, and they've deployed heavy artillery, Hind attack helicopters, and even T-90 Main Battle Tanks.

Russia is being really inconsistent in its application of force to Syria as well. They've launched cruise missiles from their TU-160s, which is wildly unnecessary. Cruise missiles are designed to penetrate into heavily defended airspace, they're a first-strike or a stand-off weapon. All sides of the Syrian conflict, be it the Assad regime, the Rebels, or IS have essentially or entirely no air-defense capability. It's pretty much Russia reminding the world that they've got these weapons, as well as a chance to practice using them in something vaguely approximating a real-world situation.

But then you have the fact that it seems like the majority of the munitions Russia is dropping in Syria are dumb bombs. Like, WWII era gravity-bombs. And they're dropping them from helicopters, hardly the best platform from which to launch bombing runs, not to mention the Hind is much better designed to launch much more precise rocket-attacks. It's not like Russia doesn't have guided munitions, or the ability to use them, the issue is that a guided munition costs thousands to tens of thousands of dollars, whereas a gravity-bomb costs a few hundred bucks.

Russia wants to show the world it's still (or again) a major military player, but they're unwilling to actually spend the money that it would take to reduce civilian casualties in the conflict.

Say what you will about Obama's drone policy, but compared to the way the Russians are behaving in Syria, the drones have been an absolute model of restraint.

This website: https://www.thebureauinvestigates.co...drones-graphs/

Estimates that between 558 at the low end and 1,235 civilians have been killed by drone strikes across Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, and Afghanistan since 2002. Russia is claiming they killed 600 IS fighters with a single cruise-missile strike, which, if the number is anywhere close to correct, is almost certainly mostly civilians.

Not to mention, the vast, vast majority of Russia's strikes have hit areas of Syria in which IS has little to no presence.



This map makes it pretty clear that up until the bombing of that Russian passenger plane, Russia was almost entirely focused on bolstering the Assad regime and had very little to do with the fight against IS, whatever they were claiming. The downing of the plane has altered the situation, but Russia is still behaving in a fairly abominable manner, even given the nature of IS.

[sharkov]

If Russia attacks turkey, I sincerely hope we don't join to defend them.

[Knut]

@Reuters: BREAKING: Turkmen brigade in Syria says shot dead two pilots of downed Russian jet as they descended with parachutes

It's even worse.

[JonDuke]

Amazing conversation on CNN:

Host: How would the pilot know when to eject?
Guest Av Geek: When their plane is damaged.

Cable news rocks!

[TheDragon]

Originally Posted by Hesla

@Reuters: BREAKING: Turkmen brigade in Syria says shot dead two pilots of downed Russian jet as they descended with parachutes

It's even worse.

They couldn't leave well enough alone, eh?

I don't see Russia letting this go without retribution...

[sharkov]

Originally Posted by Hesla

@Reuters: BREAKING: Turkmen brigade in Syria says shot dead two pilots of downed Russian jet as they descended with parachutes

It's even worse.

I guess Russia will start bombing the Turkmens as well

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Hesla

@Reuters: BREAKING: Turkmen brigade in Syria says shot dead two pilots of downed Russian jet as they descended with parachutes

It's even worse.

That makes zero sense.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by sharkov

If Russia attacks turkey, I sincerely hope we don't join have to defend them.

There is a big misunderstanding of what it means if a NATO country is attacked by another country. It states that it is considered an attack on all NATO nations, but it does not mean that every NATO nation needs to mobilize for war. Each country still has free will for what kind of measures it wants to take. They can do as much or as little as they want.

[Thor]

This is the flight path reported by Turkey, I tend to believe the jets did enter Turkey airspace but this seems like a really minor breach, certainly not worthy of a shoot down.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Thor

I'm getting so suspicious of Putin, part of me thinks he wanted to push the boundary so to speak like he's been doing all over with submarines and jets getting escorted out of airspace all over NATO nations.

This time though instead of a escort out, his plane gets shot down. I bet he's excited about this, another excuse to lie to his people about NATO aggression against peaceful mother Russia.

Yep.

And as all this Syria stuff has been happening, people have been barely noticing that Russia has been militarizing the arctic like never before.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Hesla

@Reuters: BREAKING: Turkmen brigade in Syria says shot dead two pilots of downed Russian jet as they descended with parachutes

It's even worse.

It's not quite that bad, while the Turkmen Brigade is ethnically Turk, and has received training and assistance from the Turkish Special Forces, they are not officially allied with Turkey or the Turkish Army.

They are one of the rebel groups fighting against Assad and, as such, have almost certainly already be targeted for attack by Russian airstrikes.

[Nobama]

Originally Posted by driveway

It is worth noting that Syria operates the SU-24 as well as Russia, and Turkey is claiming they notified the Russian jet several times before firing. Apparently both crewmembers of the SU-24 ejected safely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cdkf3Xx3nw

Atleast he still has his pants on so they haven't raped him yet. For being shot down in Turkey it sure seems like those are Syrian Rebels??

"Although a NATO member country, a deluge of evidence suggests that Turkey is in fact allied with ISIS and has helped the terror organization by providing safe passage and financing via black market oil sales.
$800,000,000 worth of ISIS oil has been sold in Turkey, a supposed U.S. ally. ISIS trucks are routinely allowed to cross back and forth between the Islamic State stronghold of Raqqa and Turkey."

A NATO nation thats corrupt? Now thats a first! Next stop....Saudi Arabia!

[2Stonedbirds]

Has Turkey released a statement yet? I can't see them purposely shooting down the jet and then picking the pilots off unless it was ISIS operatives or those sympathetic to their cause. An official statement could go a long ways in relieving any possible tension. Or make it worse, depends how you look at your partially filled glass.

[jeffman]

It's gonna be fried turkey soon