Up to 2,300 Syrian refugees expected in Calgary over the next six to eight weeks

[ernie]

Originally Posted by rehsifylf

Lol.

But now I'm deleting you from Facebook.

If everyone can't think the same way as me about how important it is to accept differences, I won't let them into my group.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

There is accepting differences and having a discussion and there is not wanting to be associated with people who don't deserve my time. Any of it. And closet racists and religious bigots fit that bill.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Her take (remember is 12 yrs old) is that if we take in the refugees and they see how wonderful and peaceful Canada is that will filter back to the areas of conflict (my term). It is her belief that people over there might not understand what it is to live in peace because they have never had the chance.

If this is her take then I think you can open up your cabinet and file it under "parenting win".

[CaptainYooh]

Just heard it on the radio:

According to a leaked (?) report from the Government, initial costs of settling 25,000 refugees from Syria have been estimated at $1.2B, or $48,000 per refugee. Approximately $900M of the above amount must be spent now in an effort to transport refugees to Canada and make initial settlement arrangements. The remaining costs are estimated for other settlement arrangements in the next 6 years. The Government would not comment on a leaked report.

Link

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Just heard it on the radio:

According to a leaked (?) report from the Government, initial costs of settling 25,000 refugees from Syria have been estimated at $1.2B, or $48,000 per refugee. Approximately $900M of the above amount must be spent now in an effort to transport refugees to Canada and make initial settlement arrangements. The remaining costs are estimated for other settlement arrangements in the next 6 years. The Government would not comment on a leaked report.

Link

Yeah, I'm not too worried about the price tag for something like this.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, I'm not too worried about the price tag for something like this.

Yeah, you never do.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Yeah, you never do.

As others have mentioned, over their lifespans, and the lifespans of their future generations, we're likely to make that back. Plus the alternative is to leave 25k people in a pretty dire situation.

[ResAlien]

Damn, being a decent human being sounds expensive.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

1.2 billion well spent, as far as I'm concerned.

Although, thinking about it, that does seem like an awfully high cost for transport and initial settlement. If there was a way to bring that down by X% (I'm not saying there is, only that in my lay opinion $48k per person seems like a lot), and use that savings to bring in X% more refugees, I'm for that.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Damn, being a decent human being sounds expensive.

OT, but how much did we spend and were we willing to spend bombing in Syria? Because we can subtract that amount from the cost.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by rubecube

As others have mentioned, over their lifespans, and the lifespans of their future generations, we're likely to make that back. Plus the alternative is to leave 25k people in a pretty dire situation.

And others have also mentioned that this is just a guess, which had not been proven or supported by any serious confirmed information.

Here's one angle:

CRA just published 2014 income tax data stats (it's for 2012 returns though). In summary:
18M tax returns that paid $176B in taxes, or approx. $10K/person/yr
9M tax returns that paid no taxes
8M didn't file (children, status Indians etc.)
35M population total - $176B in taxes - $5,029/person towards national revenue (one average taxpayer supports one average non-taxpayer)
$1.2B = annual tax contributions from 120,000 average Canadian taxpayers

Here's another angle:

Canada will continue budgeting $10B annual debt imbalance for the next two years due to the economy performing much worse than expected.
$1.2B = 12% of the next year budget deficit.

Yes, helping people in need is good and right thing to do. But it has to be prudent and it has to be prioritized to Canadians first. Maybe it shouldn't be 25,000 refugees, considering the economy but a much smaller number.

[PsYcNeT]

Wait I thought Conservatives were against a welfare state? Why would they want us to help Canadians first?

Isn't that why the total budget for Veteran's Affairs is a paltry 3.5b?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Parallex

If this is her take then I think you can open up your cabinet and file it under "parenting win".

Thanks.



But she really is an amazing little human.


Her level of empathy never ceases to amazing and humble me.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

And others have also mentioned that this is just a guess, which had not been proven or supported by any serious confirmed information.

Here's one angle:

CRA just published 2014 income tax data stats (it's for 2012 returns though). In summary:
18M tax returns that paid $176B in taxes, or approx. $10K/person/yr
9M tax returns that paid no taxes
8M didn't file (children, status Indians etc.)
35M population total - $176B in taxes - $5,029/person towards national revenue (one average taxpayer supports one average non-taxpayer)
$1.2B = annual tax contributions from 120,000 average Canadian taxpayers

Here's another angle:

Canada will continue budgeting $10B annual debt imbalance for the next two years due to the economy performing much worse than expected.
$1.2B = 12% of the next year budget deficit.

Yes, helping people in need is good and right thing to do. But it has to be prudent and it has to be prioritized to Canadians first. Maybe it shouldn't be 25,000 refugees, considering the economy but a much smaller number.

What is the value of a human life?

I would suspect that if we ran numbers the costs of something like Search and Rescue off the coast wouldn't be worth it.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

OT, but how much did we spend and were we willing to spend bombing in Syria? Because we can subtract that amount from the cost.

I actually think we should be doing both.


Taking in refugees and military action. To be it isn't a one or the other option.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

What is the value of a human life?...

Questions like this are rhetorical and leading nowhere.

Say, you and your wife can afford to donate $500 this year and have a family meeting to choose between different good causes:

• cancer research
• hospice for dying children
• nursing home for low-income seniors
• sick veterans
• homeless shelter
• addiction treatment centre
• pregnant teens
• victims of child abuse
• charities serving handicapped people

All of the above causes work for saving or improving human lives. I assume you will be having some kind of a discussion arguing for the merits of each family member's preferred cause before distributing the $500 and "putting a price on human life" argument is not going to be received well. You will need to choose.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Questions like this are rhetorical and leading nowhere.

Say, you and your wife can afford to donate $500 this year and have a family meeting to choose between different good causes:

• cancer research
• hospice for dying children
• nursing home for low-income seniors
• sick veterans
• homeless shelter
• addiction treatment centre
• pregnant teens
• victims of child abuse
• charities serving handicapped people

All of the above causes work for saving or improving human lives. I assume you will be having some kind of a discussion arguing for the merits of each family member's preferred cause before distributing the $500 and "putting a price on human life" argument is not going to be received well. You will need to choose.

For me it is pretty easy.


There are lots and lots of social problems here in Canada. One of those social problems isn't living in a war zone. I apply simple triage method.

Yeah you might have a broken arm, but guess what the fella with the sucking chest wound is closer to death than you. He takes priority.

I am not try to persuade you to be honest. We all make decisions. What I find disingenuous is that some people that are talking about our homeless, food banks, veterans care are the same people that complain about welfare and that people should be able to pull themselves up. (not saying you per se, I don't know you well enough).

[Looch City]

In my opinion those good causes are different than the global happenings such as tsunamis, hurricanes, wars, etc.

I suspect these refugees would rather be homeless in Canada than a refugee in Syria.

[CaptainYooh]

We have been donating 1% of our family budget to charities every year for the past 20 years. I hope, we can afford to continue doing that. Both my wife and I volunteer for Calgary organizations serving disabled people, Feed the Hungry and cultural societies regularly.

My point is not about helping refugees or not. It's about proper process of prioritization and funding allocation.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

It's about proper process of prioritization and funding allocation.

Exactly, and we are using different measures to prioritize.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

My point is not about helping refugees or not. It's about proper process of prioritization and funding allocation.

That's all well and good. But the prioritization of caring for others is almost never done on a rational basis. Look at the extreme mismatch of fundraising vs need for various types of cancer. Sometimes you have to look at these thing from a standpoint of letting people feel good about helping versus utilitarian cost-benefit. It would be nice if were more rational about these things, but a lot of people won't engage at all if that's the case.