^I hear you. I think the willingness to deal with crap comes and goes, and also varies person to person, so as I said earlier it's hard to blame you if you get fed up with it. But at the same time, if you're not going to speak sensibly about these issues, who is? Can't just leave it alone and hope someone else will do it. Kinda has to be everyone's responsibility to inject reasonableness into the dialogue.
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Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix
This is a great post and I commend you for trying to make the world a better place. I think my problem is that I just don't have the energy to be fighting with everyone about it anymore. Being outspoken has generally gotten me nothing but trouble and I can't think of a single instance where I've actually changed someone's mind. The Paris attacks were a tipping point for me, I would've said much what you did here just a week ago. Perhaps the difference is demographics? More closed minded people where I live that are wearing me down? I don't know, and I realize it's not exactly a great thing... I'm just tired of all the fighting and bickering with people in my life. Sometimes I feel like they think I'm an ISIS sympathizer the way the go about arguing with me. I've just had enough tbh, maybe I'll get more energy for the fight in the coming years as this is sadly not something that's going away anytime soon.
That's the tricky bit though isn't it?
You may not have changed anyone's mind immediately by arguing with them, but if enough people start to speak about progressive views it eventually becomes the norm, and that will usually mean more and more people begin to rethink why they are now in the minority.
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I totally understand the sentiment, Fire of the Phoenix. I've wanted to remove myself from facebook pretty badly this week and get very weary of dealing with the mass of ignorance that has been exposed. There are people that do a lot to help others, I'm not really one of them, so being a voice for those I wish I was doing more to help will be my contribution for now.
If enough people speak up, people will realize their way of thinking is not normal or accepted.
It used to be ok to make gay jokes on message boards like this one. People sat on the sidelines uncomfortably saying nothing. At some point people started speaking up, and it's just not accepted anymore.
I think things are moving the same way with the anti-Muslim and anti-Arab discussions.
I'm not going to shut up until things have changed. If I lose relationships with some racists or xenophobes, meh.
That's fair and understandable. I do think however that Facebook isn't the best avenue for debate on a lot of these topics, particularly when every sentence contains a swear or two.
That's not so say I don't or wouldn't stand up for an injustice (I don't think I've seen much or any outright discrimination on my feed), just that I don't want a religion or political ideology to define me as an individual.
If enough people speak up, people will realize their way of thinking is not normal or accepted.
It used to be ok to make gay jokes on message boards like this one. People sat on the sidelines uncomfortably saying nothing. At some point people started speaking up, and it's just not accepted anymore.
I think things are moving the same way with the anti-Muslim and anti-Arab discussions.
I'm not going to shut up until things have changed. If I lose relationships with some racists or xenophobes, meh.
Same here. I have had so many arguments recently it's been quite annoying.
When will people realize that everyone is more or less the same, just with different experiences based on where they grew up. There are great people, average people, and total loons in every populace. The total loon segment in Syria is causing everyone else to run from their homes to literally anywhere else in the world. The "Christian" thing that the west should be doing is accepting those refugees with open arms. You want to stop ISIS, do everything in your power to counter their arguments. Their main recruitment tool is that the West hates Islam. There is nothing to fear from any of the non-extremist muslims.
I have had friends from Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan (get to learn geography the fun way) and they were all very normal people. Average people from Syria would be no different. They are just looking for safety and some normalcy after seeing everything around them destroyed.
Put yourself in their situation.
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So this video got posted on my Facebook feed of a guy demonstrating immigrants with gum balls, anyone seen it? Essentially he demonstrated that the amount of immigrants the US takes in doesn't make a dent in the impoverished population as they are reproducing at a rate 80 times or so more than are being accepted into th US. Also says we are actually doing the third world a disservice as we take their best and brightest. Now, to preface this, I was unequivocally on the side of take in these refugees, however this video made me pause. If we are in fact not making any meaningful change in th amount of poor in the world and are setting them back by taking their best and brightest, should we be focussing the funds on resettlement as well as increasing foreign aid in order to build up their homelands? I'm sure much smarter people on this board will be able to give me an answer, thanks!
Just wanted to mention, what awesome job the Calgary Catholic Immigration society is doing. Almost every parish/church in the city is sponsoring a complete family; from asylum paperwork to housing , job training, ESL , etc.
Some parishes are sponsoring more than one family, all under the leadership of Bishop Henry.
BTW, of all the families I've heard of, none are Catholic.
Am I my brother's keeper? Absolutely.
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Just wanted to mention, what awesome job the Calgary Catholic Immigration society is doing. Almost every parish/church in the city is sponsoring a complete family; from asylum paperwork to housing , job training, ESL , etc.
Some parishes are sponsoring more than one family, all under the leadership of Bishop Henry.
BTW, of all the families I've heard of, none are Catholic.
Am I my brother's keeper? Absolutely.
Just wanted to mention, what awesome job the Calgary Catholic Immigration society is doing. Almost every parish/church in the city is sponsoring a complete family; from asylum paperwork to housing , job training, ESL , etc.
Some parishes are sponsoring more than one family, all under the leadership of Bishop Henry.
BTW, of all the families I've heard of, none are Catholic.
Am I my brother's keeper? Absolutely.
They're doing a great job and so is the government. The people who just moved in my basement were brought here by a Catholic Church. They seem to have the resources and power to help a lot of people in need. I'm not catholic but what an amazing humanitarian job they are doing.
So this video got posted on my Facebook feed of a guy demonstrating immigrants with gum balls, anyone seen it? Essentially he demonstrated that the amount of immigrants the US takes in doesn't make a dent in the impoverished population as they are reproducing at a rate 80 times or so more than are being accepted into th US. Also says we are actually doing the third world a disservice as we take their best and brightest. Now, to preface this, I was unequivocally on the side of take in these refugees, however this video made me pause. If we are in fact not making any meaningful change in th amount of poor in the world and are setting them back by taking their best and brightest, should we be focussing the funds on resettlement as well as increasing foreign aid in order to build up their homelands? I'm sure much smarter people on this board will be able to give me an answer, thanks!
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So this video got posted on my Facebook feed of a guy demonstrating immigrants with gum balls, anyone seen it? Essentially he demonstrated that the amount of immigrants the US takes in doesn't make a dent in the impoverished population as they are reproducing at a rate 80 times or so more than are being accepted into th US. Also says we are actually doing the third world a disservice as we take their best and brightest. Now, to preface this, I was unequivocally on the side of take in these refugees, however this video made me pause. If we are in fact not making any meaningful change in th amount of poor in the world and are setting them back by taking their best and brightest, should we be focussing the funds on resettlement as well as increasing foreign aid in order to build up their homelands? I'm sure much smarter people on this board will be able to give me an answer, thanks!
I think like many do this confuses the purposes of immigration and refugee programs. Neither of which have a goal of reducing global poverty.
Immigration is primarily a demographic adjustment tool and gives the ability to fill needed roles in a society.
Refugee programs are designed to prevent people from dying
So the argument is based on a false premise.
The stealing of best and brightest is an interesting issue especially when we're stealing doctors.
And picking fights with people on the internet will do nothing to change them.
The only thing certain to do nothing to change them is to actually do nothing. Will doing something (anything) change them? Maybe not, probably not, but the maybe and probably denote a chance however slim. I'd take the slim chance over no chance at all.
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Up to 2,300 Syrian refugees expected in Calgary over the next six to eight weeks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful
And picking fights with people on the internet will do nothing to change them.
Considering how deeply ingrained the Internet is into our social interaction, that viewpoint is a bit antiquated.
Not every disagreement or discussion on the internet is a fight though. Picking a fight would be more accurately described as, say, responding to someone with a disingenuous congrats followed by a characterisation meant to mock them. That would be 'picking a fight.'
I hope it accomplishes everything you believe it does.
Last edited by PepsiFree; 11-18-2015 at 11:27 PM.
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I've seen people who were die hard anti vaxx, anti gmo, even religious turn away from those beliefs precisely because of debates and discussions online.
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