Oct 2015 Alberta Budget Discussion

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Weitz

My Coworkers wife is a nurse , but she works what is called 0.6 time, or 24 hours per week.

Well she averages 40 hours a week because they are short staffed. Hello 16 hours of double time OT every week when in reality she should just be a full time worker.

My friend's wife did the same thing. We were going on a vacation to Mexico over Christmas and she couldn't get time off because she was down the seniority list. She went down to a .6 (somehow enabled her to go), and said she'd just pick up shifts to make up the difference. Quickly found out she was making more money this way, and has never gone back to full time.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Welcome to NDP economics. They don't even make sense in theory, let alone real world application.

[darklord700]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/al...474/story.html

"Estefania Cortes-Vargas, NDP MLA for Strathcona-Sherwood Park, proposed a non-binding motion calling on the province to consider the possibility of including child-care spaces in new government buildings."

Many of us scourge for our own child care and pay a lot for it.

But as long as I know the bundles of joy from our honourable MLAs are taken care of during the 40 or so days a year they are in session, I'll die a happy man.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by darklord700

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/al...474/story.html

"Estefania Cortes-Vargas, NDP MLA for Strathcona-Sherwood Park, proposed a non-binding motion calling on the province to consider the possibility of including child-care spaces in new government buildings."

Many of us scourge for our own child care and pay a lot for it.

But as long as I know the bundles of joy from our honourable MLAs are taken care of during the 40 or so days a year they are in session, I'll die a happy man.

What's wrong with this proposal? It doesn't say it will be free, just that they will exist. As long as they are priced at or around the market price I don't see why setting aside space for child care within a building is a bad thing. I think this a great idea.

[Nufy]

Isn't this Politics 101...

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You know what I'm sick of, Political Parties that run on a platform that they can fix things, or they are the better alternative, or whatever.

And then they get into power and automatically fall on the whole, well its the previous parties fault, then continue to do the same thing or worse.

It happens all of the time.

"Oh snap, everything that happens over the next four years is someone else's fault, we'll just secretly keep doing what they were doing and hope that no one notices"

For once, I'd love to have a party come in, take a look at the books and say, we know that we promised this stuff, but looking at the books from the previous party we know that we can't deliver our campaign promises for a while, but what we want to focus on is fixing the current issues without driving our province through a fricken debt ceiling.

I would have a lot of respect for the NDP if they came in and said, holy crap, with the spending issues of the last government and the Oil pricing, we won't be able to spend nearly as much especially since we need to get our operations budget under control.

Ah who am kidding.

The common refrain is, well the last party spent like drunken idiots, tried to feather bed themselves and had no idea of the realities of life, so we'll continue down that path, we'll tell you that we'll balance the budget by 2019, but when that doesn't happen we'll blame the last government and leave this mess for the next government.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

What's wrong with this proposal? It doesn't say it will be free, just that they will exist. As long as they are priced at or around the market price I don't see why setting aside space for child care within a building is a bad thing. I think this a great idea.

Lets see what the proposal is, if its taxpayer subsidized and a free service to government workers, then yeah I would have a massive problem with it.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by nik-

That's how I describe Business Development folk.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Welcome to NDP economics. They don't even make sense in theory, let alone real world application.

True, but in this case they only have to be good politics. Which is why they added a student job creation spend too.

Notley and Topp don't care whether jobs get created, or the money would be spent anyway. They were feeing the heat of job killing policies. As long as people are talking about their job creating policies instead it's a win.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Notley and Topp don't care whether jobs get created, or the money would be spent anyway. They were feeing the heat of job killing policies. As long as people are talking about their job creating policies instead it's a win.

The Redford government was profligate and favored big government. But even them tried to live in some sort of a constrain to limit deficit and so they cancelled a few programs like the summer job.

Watching this Notley government playing bank for the last six months is more excruciating than watching a three year old playing with monopoly money.

Just like they say be careful what you wish for and I had long wished for the Redford government to be gone.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I'd estimate 90% of the people complaining about this budget would have complained no matter what they would have produced.

There was zero chance they were going to produce something I would not complain about.

[CaptainCrunch]

This gif is a clever political statement about how nothing makes sense anymore

[Buster]

People are searching for answers, but we really don't need to look far. It's not the middle management or bloated bureaucracies (although that hurts). It's Public Sector Unions.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle27047599/

Teachers flourish because public-sector unions have unique advantages. They have virtually no competition. They can operate as inefficiently as they want and never go bankrupt. They are masters at resisting accountability and entrenching rigid work rules that protect their members. Unlike private-sector unions, they don’t have to worry that their employer will go out of business. They can count on an endless supply of money, courtesy of the taxpayer. And if the money runs out, they can always lean on politicians to raise taxes.

Government unions are always lobbying for bigger government and higher taxes, because that means more members, more money and more power for them. Teachers’ unions have an extra edge because teachers are popular, and there are so many of them, and because teacher strikes are an awful nuisance to so many people. Governments hate teacher strikes because they know the public will blame them, too.

So when cuts must be made, it’s easier to cut something else. This year, Ontario unilaterally cut doctors’ fees by 4.45 per cent, and that may be just the start. The doctors howled, but nobody cared or even noticed. Most people figure that doctors have it pretty good, and the public will only start to notice when there aren’t enough of them. If the government tried to cut teachers’ salaries by the same amount, people would notice right away. There would be riots at Queen’s Park and chaos in the schools, and the teachers would be furious for a decade.

[IliketoPuck]

What an insightful column written by an American.

Edit: I meant to say "what an excellent, non-biased, non-hyperbole filled article that considers multiple reasons why Ontario is massively in debt."

[CliffFletcher]

Wente moved to Canada when she was a child. She's a much a Canadian as any immigrant.

And if you don't think relentlessly rising public sector salaries and pensions play a big part in the budget woes of Ontario (and almost every other province and state in North America), then you're out to lunch.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Wente moved to Canada when she was a child. She's a much a Canadian as any immigrant.

And if you don't think relentlessly rising public sector salaries and pensions play a big part in the budget woes of Ontario (and almost every other province and state in North America), then you're out to lunch.

I've been banging this drum for a long time because it got out of control a long time ago and we cant keep feeding the great beast of public sector unions.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've been banging this drum for a long time because it got out of control a long time ago and we cant keep feeding the great beast of public sector unions.

I've been paying close attention to the municipal public employee situation in the US. American cities are probably at the fore-front of the "end game" of public employee entitlement and pay growth.

They've taken a real scorched earth approach, declaring bankruptcy and such.

Either Canada gets its public unions under control, or they will continue to be a drag on society.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Buster

I've been paying close attention to the municipal public employee situation in the US. American cities are probably at the fore-front of the "end game" of public employee entitlement and pay growth.

They've taken a real scorched earth approach, declaring bankruptcy and such.

Either Canada gets its public unions under control, or they will continue to be a drag on society.

I've been doing the same. The public sector unions have benefits that are wildly unsustainable and in order to keep that rickety house of cards standing they basically have to steal funds from both the taxpayers and their newer membership in order to pay the guys that are collecting.

What we've seen in the US is a repealing of some of the health benefits, huge chunks of pensions and even Collective Bargaining Powers in some cases.

And it sucks. I know it sucks. People got into those jobs largely for these benefits and pensions, but like you stated, they're running out of money and they're edging the EndGame.

Theres nothing left to steal. That wheel is going to come to a stop fairly shortly.

Now people think I've been banging this drum out of some sort of hatred or jealousy but what I've really been advocating is something that any tried and true actual Union supporter should inherently embrace.

Everyone has to take a step back, peel back some of those benefits, take pension cuts, yes, some people who dont provide sufficient organizational value will have to be cut, but by everyone taking small reductions theres at least something left for the majority.

And I hate to say it, but those pensions are a huge funding problem. Probably the greatest funding problem.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Wente moved to Canada when she was a child. She's a much a Canadian as any immigrant.

And if you don't think relentlessly rising public sector salaries and pensions play a big part in the budget woes of Ontario (and almost every other province and state in North America), then you're out to lunch.

http://business.financialpost.com/fp...ater-into-debt

Ontario's most recent debt problems are more to do with irresponsible subsidies than teachers.

I'm curious what your solution to public sector salary growth is? Should teachers be expected to not have their salaries grow at the prevailing rate of inflation? Interesting that $90,000 is considered too high of a salary for someone with two university degrees and ten years experience. Seems bang on to me.

Public sentiment towards teachers is borderline poisonous. For a profession than plays an integral part in the sustainability of our society, the amount of vitriol they get is incredible.

If all you want is subsidized day care, which is what most people appear to think teachers are, just vote NDP.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I'm curious what your solution to public sector salary growth is? Should teachers be expected to not have their salaries grow at the prevailing rate of inflation?

Teacher salaries in the last 40 years have risen far faster than inflation. Teachers with 10 years experience (which accounts for three-quarters of teachers) are in the 85th percentile among Canadians in salaries. That's hardly a downtrodden and under-appreciated profession.

But salaries aren't the biggest problem. It's the guarantee of pensions that will cause our public finances to crumble. You can't have people retiring a decade before their private-sector counterpart, and then enjoying a comfortable, guaranteed middle-class lifestyle for another 30 years. The Ontario Teachers Pension fund plan (and those of other public sector unions) were set up on models that assumed teachers would be retired for 20 years. But teachers today can expect 32 years of retirement after 27 years on the job. And as the CEO of the pension fund himself has explained, the math doesn't work any more.

“There is no defined benefits plan ever conceived that you would draw from much longer than you paid in,” he said. “It mathematically doesn’t work.”

From the same article:

The pensions at the highest income levels are worth about 50% more than average teacher salaries around the developed world (not their pensions, their salaries!).

In 1970, there were 10 working teachers in Canada for every retired teacher. In 1990, the ratio was 4:1.
In 2025, the ratio will be 1:1.

These sorts of ratios are looming in public sectors across North America. Fun fact! New York City spends more on police pensions than it does on police salaries.

And that's not even taking into account Canada's aging population, and how we're going to manage the transition from an economy where there are 5 productive working-age citizens for every 1 dependants to an economy where that ratio is 3:1. I'll hazard a guess that we'll bridge that gap with dramatically increased taxes alongside dramatically decreased services. Thanks Boomers!

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Interesting that $90,000 is considered too high of a salary for someone with two university degrees and ten years experience. Seems bang on to me.

Why do we need people with two university degrees to teach our kids? I guarantee your parents' teachers didn't have two university degrees, and they presumably ended up with pretty good educations. It wouldn't have even occurred to teachers 40 years ago to compare themselves to lawyers or accountants.

And what kind of degrees are we talking about? Are you suggesting people with degrees in history, English, political science, sociology, anthropology, or psychology have better career options in terms of compensation than becoming a teacher (or professor)?

Canadian teachers are the best compensated in the world. It's a hard job, but so are a lot of jobs.

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Public sentiment towards teachers is borderline poisonous. For a profession than plays an integral part in the sustainability of our society, the amount of vitriol they get is incredible.

So any criticism = poisonous vitriol? I'd say there is no more ferociously defensive profession Canada than teachers. You can make comments about doctors, lawyers, bankers, or electricians and you won't hear peep. Make a comment about the compensation of teachers and you get absolutely roasted. It seems teachers want to be regarded as some kind of special, almost sacred calling that is immune to the give and take and criticism that all the rest of us endure.

And in case you think I have something against teachers, I should mention that I think the relentlessly increasing compensation and guaranteed benefits of police and firefighters are also a tremendous threat to public finances and long-term sustainability of public services. Municipalities and counties across Canada are already throwing in the towel over pensions for police and firefighters. The money simply isn't there to do anything but pay the salaries and pensions of these guys who make over $100,000, 'retire' at 55 and then work another job to enjoy the best lifestyle of anyone in their towns. It's an absolute racket, and it's going to collapse within 20 years, leaving everyone else (including younger police and firefighters) with bubkas.

I'm not vilifying unions. They're only doing what they're intended to do, and that's maximizing the compensation for their members. But the notion that interests of public unions are indistinguishable from the interests of Canadians as a whole is ridiculous.

[Voodooman]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

We were in Kelowna a couple of weeks ago and bought a case of beer that is brewed in Calgary and paid almost $6 less than we would in Calgary. They are going to raise the taxes even more? I guess no more beers during hockey games to drown our sorrows away watching the flames this season.

Sorry to drag up something from so far back in the thread, but I couldn't ignore this. I've been seeing the exact same thing recently, and to the point where I no longer take beer into BC from Alberta, as it's generally cheaper to buy it there as foshizzle pointed out.

But this has nothing to do with taxation, and everything to do with capitalism and price gouging. Ignoring the federal portion (as it's the same for both provinces obviously, and on a 12 pack of say, Big Rock beer, would be about 53 cents), the provincial tax for Big Rock in Alberta used to be no more than 40 cents per litre, and will now be $.47 per litre as per the AGLC website (so about $1.92), while in BC the provincial portion would be between 70 and 90 cents per litre depending on BR's production volume), so about $3.20 per 12 pack.

Where the big difference comes in is that Alberta's system is totally privatized, and while it has certainly led to increased selection, the last thing it has led to is decreased price. Liquor agents have been steadily increasing prices to whatever they feel our super-heated economy can bear. This is the reason beer (and some wines, etc.) are now cheaper in BC. It has noting to do with provincial taxation. Alberta is still the lowest provincial mark-up jurisdiction overall in Canada (with Quebec having a much, much lower provincial tax on beer than anyone else).

So don't blame the NDP for this one, blame your ability to pay $20 for a 6 pack of Deschutes Chainbreaker IPA.