2015-2016 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by JayP

Yeah, Drew said he's heard that AA and Shapiro have never actually sat down and talked. That could be wrong, but it's just as baseless as the "scolding" meeting that people talk like it's fact.

It does beg the question - why is something like that just leaking out now? In today's media world, it seems pretty odd for a reporter to get a juicy tidbit like that and just keep it quiet.

Depends on where it came from. If a reporter directly knew about it and didn't report it until now, then yeah that's fishy. But if a media member got it from a source, which is more likely, then it makes sense that a source may not have given that up until now.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JayP

Yeah, Drew said he's heard that AA and Shapiro have never actually sat down and talked. That could be wrong, but it's just as baseless as the "scolding" meeting that people talk like it's fact.

It does beg the question - why is something like that just leaking out now? In today's media world, it seems pretty odd for a reporter to get a juicy tidbit like that and just keep it quiet.

Because nothing leaks out with Rogers on the Jays. It's all fluff and bull#### because they control the majority of the media sources in Canada. It only really comes out when the US media picks up on something and starts to dig in. Given AA is baseball executive of the year, this is a story they were interested in. TSN's entire MLB coverage is a re-branded pick up from ESPN, so the only non-bias reporting we'll get in Canada, doesn't really give much insight on the Jays other than recapping the games. Normally the story you'd be hearing is "AA leaves Jays despite being offered market contract from his hometown team" and that would be the end of it. Nothing that could potentially make Rogers look bad at all.

I've been listening to MLB coverage on serious XM for years. Sportsnet's rosy picture of the Blue Jays and their ownership is not the picture league insiders who aren't on Rogers payroll have of the organization. Sure you could say they just don't like a Canadian team, but there's too many of their reports that end up being true to chalk it all up to that.

- Bautista refusing to talk to SN over "suit gate": Not a peep until US media picked up on it

- The whole Beeston scenario. The Canadian media just gives a complete pass on this, but this was devastating to the Jays already terrible reputation. As reported throughout the US, Rogers went behind Beeston's back (and the whole baseball operations) and tried to replace him with Kenny Williams. The only reason the Jays didn't get in huge trouble over this is that the White Sox owner (Jerry Reinsdorf) said he had too much respect for Paul Beeston to force MLBs hand on this. Rogers than duplicated this lunacy by doing the same thing with Dan Duquette. The only reason Shapiro is here now and not Duquette is Baltimore basically told Rogers that if this continued they were going to be handing over all their high draft picks and prospects for the forseable future to avoid a tampering charge. I have no problem with the Jays getting rid of Beeston, but the way it was handled was deplorable.

- Last year's trade deadline: SN reporting Jays are highly active on the market and looking for multiple upgrades. US media reporting two weeks before the deadline that Rogers will not approve any increase in budget and AA is telling all major league teams Jays will not be active. This was despite the promised they had made to the team at spring training. We all know how that turned out come deadline day.

- Sportsnet reports Ervin Santana signs with Jays, only to later say he had a change of heart: US reports Ervin Santana had agreed to sign with Jays but when he heard that the Jays had asked multiple players to restructure their deals to afford it without him knowing, he rejected the offer, and it may not have been approved by the MLBPA anyways. It is later determined the US reports were accurate.

- 2 Years ago Sportsnet Reporting Jays are all in on Garza with AA sparking the fire. US media asks Garza if he's considering Toronto, and he confirms that he's never even been approached by the Jays for a conversation, let alone close to signing. You can actually repeat this story for multiple players over the past 3-4 years.

- And on, and on, and on.

At the end of the day, from a pure baseball perspective, I honestly couldn't care if Anthopolous is here or not. He's made some good trades, but for every good one, I can counter with a bad one. I also think he's getting way too much credit for this year's run. Anyone could have traded the prospects the Jays did and got as good or better players as he did. Not hard to win when your 1-7 hitters are essentially an all-star team, and your division is likely the weakest in baseball. What I care about is this:

1- I think AA just walking away without a number job in place signifies the budget isn't going to be there despite the Toronto market showing what can happen financially when they have a good team to Rogers.

2- The Jays reputation is absolute #### across the league with players and agents. What little goodwill they've built from this run and the trades that looked to be a shift in culture to that of an organization willing to do what it takes to win, is now completely gone out the window. There's not a free agent in their right mind that would sign in Toronto after having seen AA going from jumping up and down with champaign bottles with the players, to walking away less than a month later.

Rogers running a baseball team is an outright clown show. Their business model does not translate into the world of professional baseball. Even when you think things may change, they wont.

[adc]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Because nothing leaks out with Rogers on the Jays. It's all fluff and bull#### because they control the majority of the media sources in Canada.

Have you listened to a Sportsnet radio or TV show? You would think the Jays just let Scott Bowman at the end of his 5 year Cup run with the Canadians go with the way they are talking about AA. Throw in the crap they are spewing about Shapiro and its hard to see how they are in any way being muzzled by Rogers.

2- The Jays reputation is absolute #### across the league with players and agents. What little goodwill they've built from this run and the trades that looked to be a shift in culture to that of an organization willing to do what it takes to win, is now completely gone out the window. There's not a free agent in their right mind that would sign in Toronto after having seen AA going from jumping up and down with champaign bottles with the players, to walking away less than a month later.

BS

Free Agents go where the money is. Florida has crapped on players and fans more than any other organization and they signed Buerhle, Reyes and Stanton to FA deals recently. If Rogers is willing to pay they will get FA's, if not they won't. That has zero to do with keeping AA this year or not.

[Jason14h]

Free Agents go where the money is. Florida has crapped on players and fans more than any other organization and they signed Buerhle, Reyes and Stanton to FA deals recently. If Rogers is willing to pay they will get FA's, if not they won't. That has zero to do with keeping AA this year or not.

The issue is contracts are so huge now, it isn't just about money. And for the players it is, teams can outbid the Jays.

So the Jays either massively overpay or don't get FA's. I strongly disagreethat AA leaving doesn't hurts their chances at FA's.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by adc

Have you listened to a Sportsnet radio or TV show? You would think the Jays just let Scott Bowman at the end of his 5 year Cup run with the Canadians go with the way they are talking about AA. Throw in the crap they are spewing about Shapiro and its hard to see how they are in any way being muzzled by Rogers.



BS

Free Agents go where the money is. Florida has crapped on players and fans more than any other organization and they signed Buerhle, Reyes and Stanton to FA deals recently. If Rogers is willing to pay they will get FA's, if not they won't. That has zero to do with keeping AA this year or not.

For the Jays to sign a free agent, they will have to not just pay the ridiculous contracts, they will have to significantly outbid other teams significantly because their reputation is garbage. AA leaving is not going to do anything to fix this reputation. It's not the City of Toronto that's the reason for players not wanting to play there, it's the reputation the organization has around the league. MLBPA polls consistently shines in favour of Toronto. So why when it comes time to sign someone, does Toronto get the short end of the stick and has been since Rogers took over? People will automatically point towards taxes, but that is complete BS. A player playing in California or New York will take home less than they do in Ontario, and there are many other states who are on par.

Florida is a terrible example. Miami sells itself. Most players live in the area in the off-season with their families already entrenched in the communities. They can make huge money, live in a jurisdiction with no personal income taxes, and not a single person cares about baseball in Miami, so they can stay relatively low key while living like a celebrity on South Beach. The City also has a very hispanic flavour and culture which is a major selling point to a lot of the league. There's a not a team in the league that can offer what the Marlins can.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Here's how the Jays offseason is going to play out. We'll see how right or wrong I am. I hope I am wrong.

- Overpay and resign Estrada on a short term deal (3 years)
- Pick up options on Dickey, Bautista, and Encarncacion
- Make a half-assed effort on Price just to say they did and say he chose to go elsewhere.
- Float rumours on sportsnet saying they are in on multiple household name pitchers then say they could not reach a deal.
- Trade Tulo ( or another big contract roster player) for some Middle of the road starter who is young, some upside, and under team control and a small contract claiming they couldn't get a fa deal done and they are dealing from a position of strength ( offence )

[Caged Great]

I fully expect nothing but half measures that spin the tires and the two or three things that need to be done to be a top team will not be taken care of (2 #3 at least starters and maybe a good lefty bat.)

[bluejays]

I'm starting to believe more and more that at the very least Encarnacion is gone. Between him and Bautista they're both aging, have some nagging injury woes, but put up very big numbers and are FA's next year. What better time to deal them than now? If Shapiro likes prospects so much those are two guys you could deal and get a kings ransom. I wouldn't be against it. I'd be against just holding with the pitching as is. The area that's costing us games is pitching (relief and starting). Having taken a step back and seeing a lot of the free-swinging this post-season, I'm sure a lot of it was because the lack of confidence in the pitching staff, and the batters feeling they have to do it all themselves. Great pitching would make a huge difference, but there's also a higher chance of a great pitcher getting injured too.

Side note, getting back to the Dickey deal, yeah it wasn't great for us if you were to do it today, but what's so good about D'Arnaud? I've watched him this playoffs and he's not that good. Syndergaard yes, D'Arnaud, not so much. A tad better than your average catcher.

[adc]

Originally Posted by fleury

Side note, getting back to the Dickey deal, yeah it wasn't great for us if you were to do it today, but what's so good about D'Arnaud? I've watched him this playoffs and he's not that good. Syndergaard yes, D'Arnaud, not so much. A tad better than your average catcher.

I don't watch the Mets much but I heard a MLB analyst on the radio the other day saying he was good at calling a game, great pitch framer and is working really well with the young pitchers.

[Jason14h]

D'Arnaud, not so much. A tad better than your average catcher.

Did you see what the Jays had to pay to get Martin here?

Catchers who can hit are the 2nd rarest thing in baseball behind left handed aces!

[bluejays]

You're probably right. I just don't see him on Martin's level. Just above average at this point in his career from the little I've seen, admittedly.

Anyway, today Rogers' CEO son released a pretty heartfelt message about AA (I thought), which refuted that his role would've changed. I would imagine they wouldn't blatantly lie about such a thing, so I do believe the statement. So I think that narrows down to 3 things AA walked away from:

A) Principle for Rogers' handling of Beaston (the way they treated Beaston was a disaster).
B) Future money invested in the team (I find it hard to believe that Rogers has a long term budget so I don't think this would really be an issue).
C) In initial meetings with Shapiro, he was likely told he had to deal a player he had no interest in dealing for the sake of getting younger or something. That type of player who AA likely had a bond with was Bautista.

Pure speculation on my part, but I think it's more C than anything else. Rogers can be cheap, but I don't think budget cuts are in store. I don't see them breaking the bank either, so it comes down to AA not wanting to deal a player he probably likes.

[jayswin]

I'm willing to bet a lot of money budget cuts are in store. Rogers is Rogers, imo.

[Caged Great]

I wouldn't be shocked if they cut the payroll either.

[Roof-Daddy]

Josh Donaldson wins the Hank Aaron award as the top offensive player in the AL.

Good for him.

[TheAlpineOracle]

So reports are coming out that Rogers have given zero increase in the budget from last year. That gives them 32 million this offseason to sign 2-3 starting pitchers, en every day first baseman, an entire bullpen, and a closer if they move Osuna. Rumours also floating Revere will not be tendered and Maicer Izturis will be bought out.

Hope we enjoyed the run this year, because it could be another 22 years before we see another one.

[JiriHrdina]

I thought Izturis was a club option - why does he need to be bought out.
Where are these rumors coming from? Link? Source?

And why on earth would they move Osuna?

This seems to be a remarkably negative opinion with nothing to really back it up.

[Roof-Daddy]

He probably means move Osuna to the starting rotation.

[JiriHrdina]

Ah!

[jayswin]

As negative as it sounds, it's very likely. As fun as this year was, a media giant as crappy as Rogers simply isn't going to be the Yankees and spend every year with pure desire to win championships.

Not to be very pessimistic but my view of the future isn't very optimistic. You heard rumblings this past season that players were starting to get vocal about their disdain for Rogers and their lack of commitment to winning, so they caved and allowed AA to go for it this year.

Imo, they never had plans to continue the spending no matter how much success came from it. So what will likely happen now is we'll be in the hole due to some of our stars becoming FA's, who'll be replaced by far less skilled players on a budget, which will in turn deflate and piss off the remaining stars. Then we'll likely see one or two of them traded because they don't want to be here. Bautista and Tulo come to mind.

I hope that's all wrong, but spaces between the lines so far this off season seem to be a little too clear, and I think we'll see the Yankees and Red Sox (who will likely reload this off season) go back to the strong one two punch in the AL east, and we'll go back to battling it out with the Oriels and Rays for nothing but maybe a faint shot a wild card.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I thought Izturis was a club option - why does he need to be bought out.
Where are these rumors coming from? Link? Source?

And why on earth would they move Osuna?

This seems to be a remarkably negative opinion with nothing to really back it up.

All from various articles on bluebird banter (Jays fan website).

Osuna is pencilled in to start next year as things Currently stand. So is Sanchez. Bullpen is effectively completely gone with Hawkins retirement.