2015-2016 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[GirlySports]

It might not even be Shapiro's ego, it came from higher.
"YOU need to control AA's spending and stop him trading prospects away."

[The Big Chill]

The part that really bugs me about them ripping AA for giving away prospects is that AA is the one who brought all those prospects in. Before our big run in the second half when the jury was still out on AA, the one thing that we knew he had done really well was building up our prospect base. He took us from a team that was in the bottom of the rankings for prospects, and made us the top team in just a couple of seasons. Then he turns all of that into a good product on the field (which is the entire point of having prospects), and he gets slammed for it.

Rogers has themselves quite the little mess to clean up here.

[bluejays]

I don't know about that. Ownership typically needs to be consulted on major deals anyway. On the prospect side, maybe that was the case, but there isn't any free reign on the budget. Even after today, any major signings would have to go through the president then ownership.

Today's pissing match was mostly Rogers. They didn't see this coming, hired Shapiro as AA's replacement, but Shapiro probably took the job assuming there was prospect depth. AA seen great opportunities to make astute deals to improve, and made the blockbusters. Shapiro had no say considering he belonged to another team, and he got pissed that some of his prospect depth is gone. The ONLY deal the guy could possibly be upset about is the Price deal, but look at the run the Jays made?

Anyway, AA earned the right to have more autonomy, but Rogers already promised his superior that authority, so where do you go from here? If I were Rogers, knowing that it's a double promise, I'd go back to Shapiro and ask if they can go back on their word or budge a bit as AA earned it. If Shapiro didn't budge, offer him some other incentives to do so.

While Rogers was the group that didn't think about the long term ramifications of poaching Shapiro, Shapiro is the one not relinquishing authority. He's as much in fault as ownership.

I am willing to bet that years later, AA will return to the Jays as President.

[bluejays]

Delete. Double post

[adc]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

The part that really bugs me about them ripping AA for giving away prospects is that AA is the one who brought all those prospects in. Before our big run in the second half when the jury was still out on AA, the one thing that we knew he had done really well was building up our prospect base. He took us from a team that was in the bottom of the rankings for prospects, and made us the top team in just a couple of seasons. Then he turns all of that into a good product on the field (which is the entire point of having prospects), and he gets slammed for it.

Rogers has themselves quite the little mess to clean up here.

When were the Jays the top team?

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by adc

When were the Jays the top team?

I can't find the article, but they we're ranked the top of the AL when they still had the big 3 in their prospect pool. Its all pretty subjective, of course, but they were considered among the top teams.

[adc]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I can't find the article, but they we're ranked the top of the AL when they still had the big 3 in their prospect pool. Its all pretty subjective, of course, but they were considered among the top teams.

Ok.

I wasn't challenging you just wondering what year that I was.

I went with baseball America and saw they were 4 and 5 in 2011 and 2012 which was higher than I remembered them being so was interested to see when and who had them ranked higher.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Just to be clear, you mean Mark Shapiro's ego, not AA's, right?

Yes. Absolutely.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I don't think AA is perfect but he got this team back to the playoffs. What bugs me about it is what caused this. Ego. Nothing more. Control and ego.
Nothing good ever happens when that is the fuel.
They had so much momentum built up and good will from a fun season - and a great deal of that has been erased instantly.
Why?
Because of one man's huge ego.
Dumb, stupid and dumb.

I think Shapiro's ego definitely has something to do with, but I think a bigger part is Rogers. I would bet AA had a talk with Rogers about next year and going forward and he didn't like what he heard about the payroll. You could tell he wasn't happy last week when someone asked him about payroll and he flat out told them that was out of his control and they'd have to ask Rogers that question.

After showing what he can do with some resources, probably wasn't a fan of being told he was going to given the resources to finish what he started. He's now in a position of strength with other opportunities and decided to leave before the Shine starts to wear off him when he's back to being budget constrained.

All my opinion of course, but it's consistent with past actions and the constant frugality of Rogers being brought up in the US media that isn't bitting the hand that feeds them.

[browna]

Probably Rogers to blame here when dust is settled. But a tough situation all around.

Shapiro had to have been made promises when he got lured away from Cleveland after such a long time here, that there was a challenge, both on the business side, but especially on the baseball side. Thus, likley given full autonomy for a lot of things, including the roster as part of the terms of his hiring.

AA always wanted autonomy, but was handcuffed by the Rogers purse strings and by Beeston's 5 year rule of FA's. Finally, when the trade deadlines of all trade deadline pulls a 50-51 team into a hit away from a Game 7 of an ALCS series 3 month later, I am sure he felt that vindication that, if he had the money to spend and some of the shackles loosened, and full power to make moves, he could do even more.

If he had a contract here for a couple more years, I don't think he'd be gone. Reports are he was offered a one or two year deal in the summer which was too short, which then got pushed to 5 after the success.

I think he knows that over the next 5 years Rogers is not going to be opening the wallets up, and that's too long a term to be spinning wheels.

And lets not make him out to be a patron saint. He finished 5 games about 500 in his 6 years here with a lot of moves so/so (again, partly due to Rogers I am sure), and Rogers, as mentioned, was not going to be splashing out cash each season or trade deadline...they didn't do it last year after promising to add to the roster at the trade deadline if they were close...and didn't, and the team tailspinned out of contention. This year, he managed to do the big deal, but those can't be done every year. Sure, Donaldson was a great move, but again, before Tulo/Price etc arrived, they were 4th in the AL East.

Bottom line, AA felt he deserved full control of the roster (or desires that), but the combination of Shapiro wielding all the power as part of the terms of his hire 2 months ago, and the likelihood of Rogers spending money that AA wants, figures he doesn't need to work under those conditions for another half decade.

Don't blame him, nor do I blame Shapiro...again, if he had a year left, he'd be back.

Interesting to see the fallout. Gibby back? Can't see it. How does the roster take this? Toronto isn't a FA destination, and anyone excited to play in TO after the run may have second thoughts when the GM goes (no matter how agreeable to all parties it was).

[Gundo]

http://mobile.sportingnews.com/artic...w.google.ca%2F

Sporting News names Anthopoulos MLB Exec of the year........ Awkward.

[Finny61]

I'm inclined to guess that AA and Beeston knew they were gone at end of the season, so once at the half they figure let's give it a shot and go for some big deals and roll the dice because its probably over. But then it all worked, Jays go deep and now the buzz is huge. Shapiro is already courted by Rogers to come in. Shapiro's ego starts blasting AA for the moves. AA doesn't get the autonomy and walks. Rogers look like they screwed up. Gibbons won't go before start of the season because it would be yet another PR mess, Rogers looks stupid enough right now.

[adc]

Why is Shapiro's ego a problem here?

Isn't he just doing what Rogers hired him to do?

[Drake]

@Buster_ESPN:

A little candidate to work in the TOR front office under Mark Shapiro is Ross Atkins, who is the Indians current VP of player personal.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by adc

Why is Shapiro's ego a problem here?

Isn't he just doing what Rogers hired him to do?

Yeah, I don't see how this is on Shapiro at all. The reason he left Cleveland is because he wanted to get his toes back in baseball operations. He accepted the job here based on having final say in baseball decisions. Just because the Jays finally had a bit of success, he's supposed to relinquish that control he was promised and essentially uproot his family for nothing?

He was only hired in August, but I'm sure he was wooed well before that. It's a very unfortunate situation all around where I'm sure Rogers made the decision to move in a different direction from AA before the Jays caught fire and they were already in negotiations with several options. The problem here is optics. The Jays essentially hired AA's replacement while he was still with the team. I don't know how you make that transition without it being messy.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by JayP

Yeah, I don't see how this is on Shapiro at all. The reason he left Cleveland is because he wanted to get his toes back in baseball operations. He accepted the job here based on having final say in baseball decisions. Just because the Jays finally had a bit of success, he's supposed to relinquish that control he was promised and essentially uproot his family for nothing?

He was only hired in August, but I'm sure he was wooed well before that. It's a very unfortunate situation all around where I'm sure Rogers made the decision to move in a different direction from AA before the Jays caught fire and they were already in negotiations with several options. The problem here is optics. The Jays essentially hired AA's replacement while he was still with the team. I don't know how you make that transition without it being messy.

It also begs the question, when did this supposed one and only meeting between Shapiro and AA take place? The "scolding" would make more sense if it was before the Jays won the AL East and came two wins from making the World Series.

[Caged Great]

If the meeting occurred in say August, then it would make sense.

If it happened last week, then it's ridiculous.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It also begs the question, when did this supposed one and only meeting between Shapiro and AA take place? The "scolding" would make more sense if it was before the Jays won the AL East and came two wins from making the World Series.

The rumored meeting was supposed to have taken place in September. Mind you, I also heard on the Birds All Day podcast that it's also been speculated that a meeting never ever did take place between AA and Shapiro.

[adc]

As a non-Jays fan I will ask a question again:

Why does it matter when the conversation happened?

If Shapiro's policy/philiosphy is that you build a team through prospects and development then he isn't ever going to like the move AA made?

Sure it was an exciting ride but it didn't result in a World Series win or even appearance so it is up for criticism.

Shapiro isn't and shouldn't be a fan. The fact that is was the best season in 22 years or a ride the fans had been waiting for shouldn't matter to him.

If he thought it was the wrong move and not the way he wants to do business then he should tell AA should he not? Whether in August or two days ago?

[JayP]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

The rumored meeting was supposed to have taken place in September. Mind you, I also heard on the Birds All Day podcast that it's also been speculated that a meeting never ever did take place between AA and Shapiro.

Yeah, Drew said he's heard that AA and Shapiro have never actually sat down and talked. That could be wrong, but it's just as baseless as the "scolding" meeting that people talk like it's fact.

It does beg the question - why is something like that just leaking out now? In today's media world, it seems pretty odd for a reporter to get a juicy tidbit like that and just keep it quiet.