Police officer uses force to remove girl from classroom in South Carolina

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

How do you escalate a situation by sitting in a chair? She's in a chair, in a classroom, being pouty. You don't assault a child for pouting, even if they refuse to respect your authority over the chair.

My thoughts as well. Why is it so important that this child be removed from her desk immediately? Is the safety of the school and the police officer so at risk with her sitting in her desk that it is worth the risk of seriously hurting someone who isn't being violent?

[Matata]

Gets into a fight in class. Has to be forcibly removed by a police officer. Picks up some bumps and bruises along the way. Meh.

The girl in the desk probably had a thousand opportunities to diffuse the situation, instead she picked "get hauled out by the police" and got caught on the wrong end of a scuffle.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Burninator

My thoughts as well. Why is it so important that this child be removed from her desk immediately? Is the safety of the school and the police officer so at risk with her sitting in her desk that it is worth the risk of seriously hurting someone who isn't being violent?

So do you let a 16-year-old flagrantly disregard the instructions of her teacher, the vice principal and a police officer? So we let a child be in control of this situation? She's the one who gets to choose the consequences of her misbehaviour? The entire class is being completely disrupted by her 'sit-in'. The education of 30 kids is being put on hold while this one brat is refusing to accept her punishment, which was clearly to leave the classroom. And, by the way, she is the one who escalated this to a physical confrontation. She has basically barricaded herself in the room by clinging to her desk.

[afc wimbledon]

A lifetime working in schools, group homes and juvi's tells me the officers a moron, you don't take the kid out of the chair, you take the chair with the kid out of the room, or, if possible you move the other kids into another room.

This was all about having an audience, the cop is not fit for purpose if he doesn't know this.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

A lifetime working in schools, group homes and juvi's tells me the officers a moron, you don't take the kid out of the chair, you take the chair with the kid out of the room, or, if possible you move the other kids into another room.

This was all about having an audience, the cop is not fit for purpose if he doesn't know this.

Ya, I could see this going a different way if he just tried to pick up the desk and move her out or just slide her out of the classroom.

But then he has to worry about his safety in this. She would still be able to fight and scrap while this happening. At that point, if she strikes the officer, then he is ok to do what he did?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

A lifetime working in schools, group homes and juvi's tells me the officers a moron, you don't take the kid out of the chair, you take the chair with the kid out of the room, or, if possible you move the other kids into another room.

This was all about having an audience, the cop is not fit for purpose if he doesn't know this.

It is a desk and chair combo.


Is he to handcuff her to the desk and drag it all out?

Honest question as I lack the experience to comment on his tactics.

[AcGold]

Was it excessive? Yes, because there were alternatives. The class should have been emptied and she could have been taken from the chair much easier.

Take one arm, twist it a little behind her back and she would immediately have let go, heck you don't even need to do that. Grab her hand, push the wrist down just a bit and she'd have been begging for mercy. It's not so much an abuse of power as it was stupid, the actions would have been justifiable on a 200 pound man but on a 16 year old girl you could get her out infinitely easier.

Throwing someone like that was clearly unwarranted, she was on the floor already and he threw her. I get that she brought it upon herself but it was not needed. I don't get tased in the back if I get a parking ticket. The idea that a situation needs to escalate so much is ridiculous, it's a 16 year old girl in a chair, there are other alternatives besides throwing her.

[polak]

All of these suggestions require the teachers to stop the class for the other 29 kids and find some where to put them where they can be supervised just so this brat can have her fit.

Picking up a desk with an uncooperative kid in it? Are you serious?

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by polak

All of these suggestions require the teachers to stop the class for the other 29 kids and find some where to put them where they can be supervised just so this brat can have her fit.

Picking up a desk with an uncooperative kid in it? Are you serious?

Obviously the class should have been emptied, if a police officer is there it has become a legal issue beyond just a little fit. Handle such instances poorly and people can be hurt, careers can be damaged and things can escalate beyond the appropriate level. Absolutely the class should have been emptied, a ridiculous idea to state otherwise.

[something]

Some thoughts from someone with training on Use of Force model in Canada.

The optics of this are bad for several reasons:

-Short clip does not reveal any indication that there were reasonable efforts to gain compliance otherwise.
-Grown man, teenage girl.
-Given the racial undertones in police/civilian encounters in the US lately, just bad timing.

Also, the headlock (again, Canadian standards here) was an escalation of force. She was a passive resistor, could have employed PPCT (Pressure Point Control Tactics). The beauty of PPCT for these scenarios is:

-Risk of injury from PPCT virtually nil.
-More effective compliance, a headlock is a gross maneuver where a lot can go wrong. Whether or not something went wrong in this case is moot.

Also, Polak: Calling in backup is one of the first things to be done in accordance with protocol (again, Canadian standards). You may think it is a waste of resources, but consider this. The situation doesn't appear to be urgent. There is no immediacy to the need for removal. When you fail to gain compliance, you increase the presence of authority. This accomplishes several things:

-Raises the stakes for the offender, encourages them reassess their situation.
-Compels voluntary compliance.
-Should anything go wrong, you have corroborating evidence (assuming integrity...)
-Demonstrates that you are taking precautions to avoid conflict and are escalating the use of force linearly.
-It is easier to control the situation with help.
-Allows time for you to discuss with the student what the issue is. Why they are being resistant. How you might gain voluntary compliance often emerges at this point, before your partner/backup arrives.
-Allows you to cool down as you wait. Sometimes in these situations we act irrationally. Even cops...

This should absolutely be put to review. Not saying the cop was wrong here, but there are a few lessons to be gained from this, I suspect...

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by polak

All of these suggestions require the teachers to stop the class for the other 29 kids and find some where to put them where they can be supervised just so this brat can have her fit.

Picking up a desk with an uncooperative kid in it? Are you serious?

You don't pick it up, you just drag it out backwards, squeals like an sob and leaves a mark but that's all, I've done it with a kid in the chair.

And yes if need be you take the other kids into the hall and make them wait a few minutes, it's better than what they did.

[HotHotHeat]

TIL CP members would be terrible cops.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Sliver

So do you let a 16-year-old flagrantly disregard the instructions of her teacher, the vice principal and a police officer? So we let a child be in control of this situation? She's the one who gets to choose the consequences of her misbehaviour? The entire class is being completely disrupted by her 'sit-in'. The education of 30 kids is being put on hold while this one brat is refusing to accept her punishment, which was clearly to leave the classroom. And, by the way, she is the one who escalated this to a physical confrontation. She has basically barricaded herself in the room by clinging to her desk.

Unreal. You need to rethink the role of a police officer if you think it's this.

[afc wimbledon]

I will also point out that if not disrupting the class is your objective then the cops actions utterly disrupted the class.

[foshizzle11]

Just listening to a call in show on Fox news radio. I have heard I think 10% of callers think the cop didn't do anything wrong. They say that most arrests can be worse than that. Not that it is right.

Anyway, now that I have heard a lot of people comment on this. I think that the officer should have handled it differently. They should have cleared the classroom to the hallway or the gym, first off.

Maybe this "tackle" still happens but there isn't 10 videos going viral of this cop online "beating" this girl.

She was in the wrong, he handled it poorly. I don't think this had anything to do with race as some have suggested and as I posted in the OP. Just an interesting take on the BLM movement and how some young black people don't feel like they need to listen to anything the police tell them.

[peter12]

Yes, to reiterate, that clip is absolutely insane. In what world is it okay for a grown and armed man to body slam a child.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

Just listening to a call in show on Fox news radio. I have heard I think 10% of callers think the cop didn't do anything wrong. They say that most arrests can be worse than that. Not that it is right.

Anyway, now that I have heard a lot of people comment on this. I think that the officer should have handled it differently. They should have cleared the classroom to the hallway or the gym, first off.

Maybe this "tackle" still happens but there isn't 10 videos going viral of this cop online "beating" this girl.

She was in the wrong, he handled it poorly. I don't think this had anything to do with race as some have suggested and as I posted in the OP. Just an interesting take on the BLM movement and how some young black people don't feel like they need to listen to anything the police tell them.

That's twice now in two posts that you've tried to steer this conversation towards Black Lives Matter. What do you actually want to discuss here?

I see zero mention of BLM in the article, what makes you think this is related in any way?

[peter12]

The teacher also looks black.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

That's twice now in two posts that you've tried to steer this conversation towards Black Lives Matter. What do you actually want to discuss here? I see zero mention of BLM in the article, what makes you think this is related in any way?

Surprised that you're surprised given how often this tack has been taken in stories on this subject matter... this is standard "narrative" politics; regardless of the idiosyncracies or nuances of the situation, if at a ten thousand foot level you can draw any comparison (black person + police use of force, here) you must draw the story into the overall story about race relations, because that story - the fight against racism by police in the USA - is what's really important. The incident is just a random incident with no discernible consequences.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by something

Some thoughts from someone with training on Use of Force model in Canada.

The optics of this are bad for several reasons:

-Short clip does not reveal any indication that there were reasonable efforts to gain compliance otherwise.
-Grown man, teenage girl.
-Given the racial undertones in police/civilian encounters in the US lately, just bad timing.

Also, the headlock (again, Canadian standards here) was an escalation of force. She was a passive resistor, could have employed PPCT (Pressure Point Control Tactics). The beauty of PPCT for these scenarios is:

-Risk of injury from PPCT virtually nil.
-More effective compliance, a headlock is a gross maneuver where a lot can go wrong. Whether or not something went wrong in this case is moot.

Also, Polak: Calling in backup is one of the first things to be done in accordance with protocol (again, Canadian standards). You may think it is a waste of resources, but consider this. The situation doesn't appear to be urgent. There is no immediacy to the need for removal. When you fail to gain compliance, you increase the presence of authority. This accomplishes several things:

-Raises the stakes for the offender, encourages them reassess their situation.
-Compels voluntary compliance.
-Should anything go wrong, you have corroborating evidence (assuming integrity...)
-Demonstrates that you are taking precautions to avoid conflict and are escalating the use of force linearly.
-It is easier to control the situation with help.
-Allows time for you to discuss with the student what the issue is. Why they are being resistant. How you might gain voluntary compliance often emerges at this point, before your partner/backup arrives.
-Allows you to cool down as you wait. Sometimes in these situations we act irrationally. Even cops...

This should absolutely be put to review. Not saying the cop was wrong here, but there are a few lessons to be gained from this, I suspect...

Thanks for the detailed and informative post! Much appreciated.