Bob Hartley and the Coaching Staff Thread

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by Iceman90

We're not a cup contender. We're a team in year 3 of a rebuild. This performance is about what's expected.

Exactly. Flames were gonna be a bubble team at best this year whatever last year was. And they still will be. Those with visions of an SCF appearance this year should go back and watch those Ducks games. We can't really compete with the elite - yet. I think the potential is there, and while this is a disappointing start, growing pains are going to be with us for a few years yet.


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[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Hartley coached Sakic, Forsberg, Roy (!!!), Bourque, Foote, Blake etc etc etc

Right I don't disagree there, nor do I think Hartley is a bad coach. But if this streak continues and the current coaches can't seem to turn things around, its easier to change a coach then to change your roster (i.e. its extremely difficult to make trades these days, let alone the right trade for your team given need, talent, character, etc)... if Hartley can't figure it out, and if there is another coach that can, its a lot easier to just to get the other coach.

The team isn't gonna burn assets in a rebuild to shake up the roster, but I don't think a coach is considered a asset (not unless you are Mike Babcock, apparently).

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Exactly. Flames were gonna be a bubble team at best this year whatever last year was. And they still will be. Those with visions fan SCF appearance this year should go back and watch those Ducks games. We can't really compete with the elite - yet. I think the potential is there, and while this is a disappointing start, growing pains are going to be with us for a few years yet.

Its ok to be rebuilding, it might even be ok to lose. But being in disarray is probably not ok and that would probably be the grounds for any coaching change.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by adc

Well except for the starting goalie, the top two defensemen and arguably best two players on the team, the second line center, the spark plug that had a huge effect on the Vancouver series, the defenseman that stepped up to make a solid pairing with Brodie and a handful of role players that helped make the team the kind of team that was hard to play against (Stajan, Bouma, Bollig) you're right essentially Feasters team.



-He brought in the goalie that led the team in wins, GAA, sv % and led them to their first round win.
-He has continued to stick with the rebuild despite the temptation to ramp up the process last year when the team overachieved.
-He didn't knee jerk fire Hartley because he wasn't his guy.
-The deals he has signed have not handcuffed us financially
-He has resisted going after the "big whale" that would make a splash but be a terrible signing for the team cough Richards and O'Reilly cough

Engelland has been a fine signing and done basically everything that should have been expected of him, more if you consider his play with Brodie at the end of last year and in the play-offs. The only people complaining about this are those that expect way too much from a 6th defenseman.

Hamilton is struggling early but wasn't brought in to be a Norris contender this year, if he was he would be making a hell of a lot more than 5.75 million. He is a 22 year old defensemen that has played top 4 minutes on a multiple play-off teams and has a season of 42 points already. He has great size and has shown in juniors and at times in the NHL that he is a competent or better defender. That was a great trade that fits it well with the plan to contend not right this minute but for the next 5+ years.

Frolik has been one of the better players on the team this season so not sure what the complaint would be about that signing.

Sure every signing has not been a home run but that happens with every GM.

I would also add Hiller last year was a big reason the flames made the playoffs. he is hot garbage this year.

As for the posters giving feaster credit..... you do realise that the reason that the flames got Monohan and Bennett was through failure. If this years flames end up with a top 5 pick and draft someone good for the future, wouldn't Treliving deserve the same kind of praise?

[Iceman90]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Its ok to be rebuilding, it might even be ok to lose. But being in disarray is probably not ok and that would probably be the grounds for any coaching change.

Being in disarray could lead some young guys to step up and take some of the roster spots.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I would also add Hiller last year was a big reason the flames made the playoffs. he is hot garbage this year.

As for the posters giving feaster credit..... you do realise that the reason that the flames got Monohan and Bennett was through failure. If this years flames end up with a top 5 pick and draft someone good for the future, wouldn't Treliving deserve the same kind of praise?

I was gonna say that too LOL... trying to make the playoffs, screwing up and ending up a basement team and getting a high draft pick.

(that would suck if thats what happened this season though)

[Flame$4Ever]

The coaching is not to blame...it's the players who won a contract to make millions that destroy this game...thats all they care about...the $$$...win or lose...what happened to this team...to much money thrown at em?? unreal...they just want the paycheck and not work for it..

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

Make your picks people,

Guy Boucher
Bruce Boudreau
Todd Richards
Claude Julien

You forgot Eakins

(Oops! Someone else remembered him.)

[drewtastic]

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[Armchair Quarterback]

I thought about ignoring this dissertation-length spin answer but I must object.

you're right essentially Feasters team.

Yep. E.g., the entire top line, or, the only line actually producing on this team.

-He brought in the goalie that led the team in wins, GAA, sv % and led them to their first round win.

I am quite sure that last year's success was a combination of both Hiller and Ramo, not just Hiller.

-The deals he has signed have not handcuffed us financially

Frolik - 5.5m
Hamilton - 5.5m
Hiller - 4.5m
Ramo - 2.8m
Raymond - 3.15m

Now only $1,795,434 of cap space. But hey we are not handcuffed financially, what with both Gaudreau and Monahan up for renewal next season.

-He has resisted going after the "big whale" that would make a splash but be a terrible signing for the team cough Richards and O'Reilly cough

Cough cough Dougie Hamilton perhaps?

-He has continued to stick with the rebuild despite the temptation to ramp up the process last year when the team overachieved.

See preceding answer

Frolik has been one of the better players on the team this season so not sure what the complaint would be about that signing.

Agree with you there. No complaints there.

Sure every signing has not been a home run but that happens with every GM.

Understatement of the year so far buddy

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Iceman90

We're not a cup contender. We're a team in year 3 of a rebuild. This performance is about what's expected.

This is starting to sound like Oilers logic.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Engelland
Bollig
Raymond
Hamilton
Re-signing Ramo at a massive cap hit
Waiving Byron

Treliving's moves sure aren't looking good right about now.

You left out signing another non-physical winger to play on a small non-physical team....

[polak]

How long does a proper, planned rebuild (not just sucking forever like the panthers or Oilers) last? 5, 6 years?

Well were half way through and playing the worst we have looked in the process... Good sign...

[Parallex]

I think a large degree of the teams troubles are system based. The league has made adjustments and Hartley has not made adjustments to the adjustments. If he can then he should and if he can't then I think the time to part ways should be sooner rather then later.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback

I thought about ignoring this dissertation-length spin answer but I must object.

Yep. E.g., the entire top line, or, the only line actually producing on this team.

I am quite sure that last year's success was a combination of both Hiller and Ramo, not just Hiller.

Frolik - 5.5m
Hamilton - 5.5m
Hiller - 4.5m
Ramo - 2.8m
Raymond - 3.15m

Now only $1,795,434 of cap space. But hey we are not handcuffed financially, what with both Gaudreau and Monahan up for renewal next season.

Cough cough Dougie Hamilton perhaps?

See preceding answer

Agree with you there. No complaints there.

Understatement of the year so far buddy

Frolik $5.5M? The cap hit is $4.3 but Ramo makes a full million more than you have there.

The team does have Hudler, Jones, Ramo, Hiller coming off the books for a total of $16.3M so signing our young kids won't be an issue but no way they are keeping those ufas. Also they need a new goalie next year.

I expect players like Porier, Granlund, Kulak, Wotherspoon making the team full time next year though to fill in some cheap spots

[adc]

Yep. E.g., the entire top line, or, the only line actually producing on this team.

Yes there are pieces added during his time but this is hardly Feaster's team. It is a mix of Feaster, Sutter and Treliving all having brought key pieces in.

I am quite sure that last year's success was a combination of both Hiller and Ramo, not just Hiller.

Sure a combo of both and Ortio since all 3 won games but since Hiller had the best stats and by far the most wins hard to argue that he wasn't the biggest piece of the 3.

Frolik - 5.5m
Hamilton - 5.5m
Hiller - 4.5m
Ramo - 2.8m
Raymond - 3.15m

Now only $1,795,434 of cap space. But hey we are not handcuffed financially, what with both Gaudreau and Monahan up for renewal next season.

What moves have we been prevented from making because of those deals? If rumours are true its Widemans deal that is stopping his trade from happening.

And when Monahan and Gaudreau are up for new deals Hiller, Ramo, Jones, Hudler, Russell are all done clearing a ton of space to easily re-sign those guys.

Cough cough Dougie Hamilton perhaps?

See preceding answer

Dougie Hamilton is a 22 year old defenseman that will be hitting his prime along side Gaudreau, Monahan and Bennett. How is that a big whale that will hurt this team long term or a move to ramp up the rebuild? That is a move that helps strengthen the team for the years that you want to be at your peak (2-3 years from now).

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I think a large degree of the teams troubles are system based. The league has made adjustments and Hartley has not made adjustments to the adjustments. If he can then he should and if he can't then I think the time to part ways should be sooner rather then later.

I think the problem is that the system kind of helped cover up the lack of offensive talent amongst the forwards. The team got more points from their defensemen than any other team and it helped get plugs like Jooris and Bouma to put up numbers that they really didn't have any business getting. Now teams are waiting for the stretch pass and anticipating defensemen getting into the rush which means the Flames have to gain entry into the opponents end more methodically and this team really doesn't have enough skilled forwards to be able to skate up the ice themselves and generate chances. You see the first line do it on occasion but that's about it and the team looks like they are spinning their wheels trying to generate offensive pressure. Lots of over passing and lots of lost puck battles.

I feel for Hartley in that he did such a brilliant job last year but as we see in all sports teams are quick to adapt and take away what you do well and just like say the 49ers who took the NFL by storm having Kaepernick run the read option in his first 1.5 years only two years later the team is bad and the guy doesn't even look like a starter as teams adjusted and took away the run and made him throw from the pocket. Bottom line is that innovation will take you only so far and eventually other teams catch up and you have to lean on talent. Right now there's just not enough talent between the pipes or in the forward group. I don't see this season turning around as I just don't see who's going to score for this team outside of the first line.

[XeO]

Sometimes the best choice is to do nothing and let it play out. Meaning don't rush to fire or trade anyone. Hartley won the Jack Adams for a reason. I have confidence he is the right leader for this club

[the_only_turek_fan]

This site is getting hilarious.

You people act like you are 100% awesome at your jobs, and you never have a bad day or a bad week.

Like seriously, it's just hockey.

[Vulcan]

Some are saying the Flames game plan is now being stifled by other teams. One thing is it's a game plan that takes advantage of our teams talent while not trying to play a cycling game because we just don't have the horses to do it. Hartley's in a no win situation right now so probably we're going to take some lumps.

The other thing that I've thought is a reason for our slow start is the team was busy reading it's press clippings and thought a half a$$ed effort would do. Well it won't and what is a shame is that they've wasted the confidence of being a winner and need to start over again. It may be too late by the time they come around but on the bright side we may end up with a good pick at the end of the year.