Getting rid of the Harper government will be nothing but good for all involved, including the conservative party. The Harper governance style is so well recognised as harmful and un-Canadian now that his defeat is really necessary for his own party to have a chance to rebuild. Harper's governance has become a bigger problem for the conservatives than their policies, which is remarkable in that it has tapped into deeper concerns about the health of democratic governance in Canada. The base has held fairly strong, but with even the base expressing deep dislike for Harper it's totally clear that the conservatives need a leadership reboot and that a loss in this election may help then long term as long as the Harper leadership group gets tossed and the party can move towards a more transparent and democratic approach to governance.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
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Canada desperately needs a 2nd conservative option. The left has the Liberals, NDP and Greens (plus the Bloc in Quebec) to choose from when they don't like what is in front of them. The right has to hold their noses and vote for the same crap over and over because there are no other options. Either that, or vote against their leanings, which isn't easy for anyone to do. There is some room for the right among the Liberals, at least historically, but maybe too much bad blood there.
Getting rid of the Harper government will be nothing but good for all involved, including the conservative party. The Harper governance style is so well recognised as harmful and un-Canadian now that his defeat is really necessary for his own party to have a chance to rebuild. Harper's governance has become a bigger problem for the conservatives than their policies, which is remarkable in that it has tapped into deeper concerns about the health of democratic governance in Canada. The base has held fairly strong, but with even the base expressing deep dislike for Harper it's totally clear that the conservatives need a leadership reboot and that a loss in this election may help then long term as long as the Harper leadership group gets tossed and the party can move towards a more transparent and democratic approach to governance.
Has the base expressed a deep dislike for Harper?
That kind of seems, like many posts in this thread, a very left leaning view of things. As someone who is definitely a member of the base I would like to see Harper stay on and continue to lead the party. I totally support his governance and am fully behind him.
My concerns about replacing Harper, especially with some names, cough Charest cough, would lead to another fracture in the party as I for one have zero interest in a Charest lead party that is just a move to the middle and a Liberal in Conservative clothing much like what happened in Alberta with Redford.
That kind of seems, like many posts in this thread, a very left leaning view of things. As someone who is definitely a member of the base I would like to see Harper stay on and continue to lead the party. I totally support his governance and am fully behind him.
My concerns about replacing Harper, especially with some names, cough Charest cough, would lead to another fracture in the party as I for one have zero interest in a Charest lead party that is just a move to the middle and a Liberal in Conservative clothing much like what happened in Alberta with Redford.
I'm an original, "founding" member of the CPC. I have no issues with Harper, he's done a pretty good job imo. I have a problem with the actual base of the party.
We used to have so many young, up and comers with fresh ideas. Now we relay on angry old bigots.
That kind of seems, like many posts in this thread, a very left leaning view of things. As someone who is definitely a member of the base I would like to see Harper stay on and continue to lead the party. I totally support his governance and am fully behind him.
My concerns about replacing Harper, especially with some names, cough Charest cough, would lead to another fracture in the party as I for one have zero interest in a Charest lead party that is just a move to the middle and a Liberal in Conservative clothing much like what happened in Alberta with Redford.
I'm at a bit of a distance, but from what I read in the news, and I think there are also many examples in this thread, I think it's a fair read. One recent example is from Jennifer Ditchburn, who addresses it directly. If you just watch the first two minutes of this video she emphasises that her greatest impression in talking with voters in Toronto is that many conservative voters really dislike Harper.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
Perhaps it is the Westerner in me but I don't really consider most voters in Toronto to be the base of the party. Those voters seem to be the swing types that have given the Conservatives a majority in the past but may swing to take them below the Liberals this time, but perhaps I am misjudging Toronto area Conservatives.
For me what I have been hearing is that the Conservative base is pretty strong which is why most people have them at say a 30% floor but a lower ceiling than the Liberals because the Conservatives have the strong support from their base but a losing out on the swing voters.
But I am far from an expert and have only read and watched very brief articles and shows so I could be right out to lunch. I will say among those I know that I would say are strong Conservative supporters nobody has said anything against Harper but I know how wrong anecdotal evidence can be.
Perhaps it is the Westerner in me but I don't really consider most voters in Toronto to be the base of the party. Those voters seem to be the swing types that have given the Conservatives a majority in the past but may swing to take them below the Liberals this time, but perhaps I am misjudging Toronto area Conservatives.
For me what I have been hearing is that the Conservative base is pretty strong which is why most people have them at say a 30% floor but a lower ceiling than the Liberals because the Conservatives have the strong support from their base but a losing out on the swing voters.
But I am far from an expert and have only read and watched very brief articles and shows so I could be right out to lunch. I will say among those I know that I would say are strong Conservative supporters nobody has said anything against Harper but I know how wrong anecdotal evidence can be.
Alberta is certainly the biggest stronghold, so I can understand that perspective, though I think it would be a dangerous position for the party to take as it has really been their ability to become more than just a western party that allowed them to get into power. Also, the thirty percent who have held strong for the conservatives aren't just from the west.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
Leaving aside the conclusion they've reached - that the Conservatives should get back in, but Harper should resign (because that would be a logical and plausible thing to happen)- the whole thing reads like something a grade 10 kid would have written as his first draft of an essay, before he had any chance to do any research or revision. I'd have been mildly embarrassed to post that editorial on this forum at 3 in the morning after 10 pints of suds, much less in a national newspaper. Just brutal.
I imagine there must be lots of journalists at the Globe utterly embarrassed by this, and lots of readers cancelling their subscriptions. The National Post should come out with an editorial tomorrow cautiously endorsing the Liberals. Might steal away some of the Globe's pissed off readership.
To add to editorial-gate, rumour has it that over at the National Post, editor/editorial board Andrew Coyne agreed to run the "official" newspaper editorial endorsing the Conservatives, but that Andrew Coyne the columnist was going to write a column endorsing another candidate.
Andrew Coyne's the columnist got yanked at last minute and won't run. I'll see if I can track down an article on all this.
CANADALAND has learned that though Coyne the editor has signed off on an official National Post Harper endorsement, Coyne the columnist planned to endorse a different candidate under his own byline in the paper tomorrow.
But the National Post won't run it.
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Will Andrew Coyne stay on at the Post if he's muzzled from telling us all what he thinks?
The current conservative party wiped our home off the map when the did a hostile takeover of the PC party....Thanks Peter McKay.
I liked the way Trudeau put it better...
"Canada's proud Tory history has been abandoned by a party that has merely assumed a label and co-opted a political tradition, Most insulting of all for Progressive Conservatives is how casually and quickly their history has been abandoned. How swiftly Stephen Harper's Conservatives laid claim to a proud Canadian institution, then hollowed out its centre and replaced the heart with the divisive, secretive and fearful core."
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Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Trudeaumania not worth the price
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This election will define how we handle the greatest spending dilemma of our time and the legacy we will leave to future generations in Canada.
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The first is $1.2 trillion. That’s the combined federal and provincial government debt in Canada, about $33,800 for every man, woman, and child.
This debt will be repaid, slowly, by taxpayers, through higher taxes and reduced government services.
It’s been nearly a decade since the global financial crisis and recession hit, and the federal and provincial governments are finally starting to rein in spending to return to balanced budgets.
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The second figure for Canadians to consider when they cast their vote is $26 billion.
That’s how much taxpayers shell out each year to pay interest on Canada’s federal debt — about $1,500 per worker per year just to keep the bond lenders at bay.
Rather than paying down debt, pre-funding future health care and pension costs, or returning money to taxpayers through tax cuts, $26 billion is washed down the drain annually just to pay the ghosts of governments past.
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The third number to keep in mind Monday is $146.5 billion. That’s how much Justin Trudeau has promised in new spending during this campaign.
After weeks of criticizing Harper for racking up debt, Trudeau flip-flopped and decided to campaign on deficits.
Trudeau wants Canada to follow Ontario down the road of runaway spending, bloated budgets, and endless borrowing.
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The forth number Canadians should consider is 2015.
According to Statistics Canada’s annual population report, 2015 is the first year in our history seniors over 65 outnumber children under the age of 15.
So 2015 is a milestone. It’s the tipping point in the demographic tsunami economists and academics have long been dreading.
As more baby boomers retire, government spending on health care, Old Age Security and pensions will soar, and the smaller number of young Canadians will carry a much larger fiscal burden.
Do not believe what the media and politicians tell you. Go research the facts for yourself.
She is talking about Federal and Provincial debt combined. When electing a federal government, look at federal debt levels.
The Liberals cut the federal debt to GDP ratio in half. Judge them by their actions, not their words.
My personal biased opinion is that the Conservative movement naturally lurches toward allowing their socially conservative beliefs inhibit their ability to control debt. While the federal Liberals favour reason based policy decisions, and lean towards making the right calls when it comes to government financial decisions. But that is just my bias, and that doesn't matter. What matters is the cold facts shown by that chart.
In Canada, federal Conservative parties demand fiscal prudence, then cause debt to pile up. Federal Liberals demand increased social spending, then end up paying off Conservative debt. The current Liberal plan is to reduce the debt-to-GDP ratio from where it is now, to 27%. They have the most credibility when making such a commitment.
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