[PGT] Canucks 5 @ Flames 1

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

God, I am not going to play this stupid game with you.

Of course you aren't as I asked a question to which you clearly have no rebuttal. There are more graceful ways of admitting you are wrong.

[Huntingwhale]

Hilarious how most people wanted to trade Hiller and keep Ramo, and after one loss the opinion has changed. Wish I could find the thread with the poll about which goalies to keep. Never change CP, never change.

Was fully expecting the loss and I wasn't too far off when I predicted a 6-1 Canucks win. Fact is, the Flames put up stinkers year after year in the season opener. Like clock work, they start the first 10 mins strong then falter to the end. It's opening game tradition.

Not too worried about it and if anything it's a wake up call for the guys to realize that they are going to have to work ever harder then last season to get to where they were.

Review it, practice, forget about it and on to game 2!

[robaur]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would be fine with this as it worked with Wideman at this time last season and Backlund really needs a bounce back season as last season he was one of the Flames most disappointing forwards. If he can't show improvement at this stage of his career it's probably a sign that he's no longer part of the future.

Fully agreed. Its put up or shut up time for Backlund....it's been 8 years. Time to shoulder some responsibility or he has no spot on this team.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

God, I am not going to play this stupid game with you. I have already made my case in the tandem thread and you are more than welcome to respond. There was a 0.006 difference in Hiller's and Ramo's save percentages from last season. That means that for every 1000 shots faced, Hiller made six more saves than Ramo. That amounts to a fairly negligible difference. I have conceded in the other thread that Hiller is statistically slightly better, but not enough so that he is in any way, shape, or form a clear choice to be the starting goalie for this team.

I like the way Hartley handled it last season: win and you are in. This is precisely how it ought to work when neither goalie is good enough—when the difference between the two is razor thin—to play +60 games.

I would counter that over the course of 82 games, that's about 15 goals. That isn't razor thin as that's about 5 to 6 more lost games and the Flames not being in the playoffs

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by robaur

...Bennett should be strictly playing with Frolik or Hudler. He needs more skilled wingers to play his game and to help him out. And yes, we did draft Sam to potentially win the Calder. That statement makes no sense. Case in point this morning, Bennett is now centering Frolik. Guess the coaches agree.

No, Sam Bennett was not drafted by the Flames for the purpose of winning a silly trophy awarded on individual merit. If he happens to win the Calder, it is a terrific accomplishment, but I am fairly certain that the Flames are apathetic about the whole thing. Why would they care one way or the other?

[robaur]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No, Sam Bennett was not drafted by the Flames for the purpose of winning a silly trophy awarded on individual merit. If he happens to win the Calder, it is a terrific accomplishment, but I am fairly certain that the Flames are apathetic about the whole thing. Why would they care one way or the other?

Because if Bennett actually does win the Calder, it means the Flames likely had a very successful regular season. It goes hand in hand. You can't just write it off and say if Hartley wants to play him with plugs, then he should play with plugs. Bennett needs to be given a top 6 role whether on the wing or at Centre.

At this point, he's already better than Backlund so no idea why he wouldn't play as a 2nd line centre. the only reason why I can think is because he can't handle other teams size...so then he should play wing. Not be downgraded into a bottom 6 role just so he can play his position.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Hilarious how most people wanted to trade Hiller and keep Ramo, and after one loss the opinion has changed. Wish I could find the thread with the poll about which goalies to keep. Never change CP, never change.

Was fully expecting the loss and I wasn't too far off when I predicted a 6-1 Canucks win. Fact is, the Flames put up stinkers year after year in the season opener. Like clock work, they start the first 10 mins strong then falter to the end. It's opening game tradition.

Not too worried about it and if anything it's a wake up call for the guys to realize that they are going to have to work ever harder then last season to get to where they were.

Review it, practice, forget about it and on to game 2!

I think most individuals wanted to trade the guy with more value. Not sure of the flip flop in this thread.

IMO too many Flames players (especially D-Men) who kept trying to play hero and being ineffective + giving the other team chances while also messing up positioning for everyone else so bad that the other guys were well behind on keeping up. On most of the goals I kept yelling, "How was he allowed to be there/with all that space and time right there?" I don't think last night was effort. It was a collapse of discipline.

These guys just need to watch the videos, point at each other, laugh it off and go into game 2 ready to go.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If this was a game in November, I would probably agree with you. But in the opening game of the season, it is almost impossible to get a clear read of any kind on any team. Toronto lost their home opener last night as expected, but were they in any way outplayed by Montreal? No. The Canadiens are a good bet to make the playoffs and the Leafs are likely a lottery team, and yet, they played what amounted to a saw-off game.

No argument from me. I'm not saying the Canucks are a playoff lock. I'm just saying they look like they will be in the mix, not a bottom-feeder. That's the west though, 12/14 are gonna be in the mix. Not like that would be out of the ordinary for them - they've been a playoff team all but that one year where they decided the Sedins need to dump-n-chase and kill penalties.

As for the Canucks, half of the depth you have identified are either rookies or playing in their second season. I agree that in a few years, players like Hutton, Virtanen, and McCann are likely going to help the Canucks, but I am not at all confident that any one of them will even still be in Vancouver after a few weeks. I still think that while Horvat will one day be a solid second line centre, he will probably struggle a bit this season, and that the team will struggle as a whole to score outside of the top line. I do not think that all three of Tanev, Hamhuis, and Edler are great defensemen.

In Hutton's case, he's on their bottom pairing. So I would say he's their equivalent of Kulak. So yeah, he could crash, but it's not like their season is riding on him.

In Virtanen's case, he's a winger who plays a really simple game and has a great shot. He won't have a lot of responsibilities but could make an impact as a depth guy.

I don't think Horvat will struggle this year beyond the general growing pains of a young player, which plenty of good teams work through. Not sure what kind of stats he puts up, but he's a second year pro who's gradually earned his coach's trust. McCann is a rookie, but he's also in the same boat as Bennett where he can be insulated on a third line, and he came from a very well-coached junior team unlike Bennett, whose junior team was brutal for his development.

Tanev, Edler, and Hamhuis are all #2/#3 defensemen in the NHL. None of them are #1s but all of them are steady.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I would counter that over the course of 82 games, that's about 15 goals. That isn't razor thin as that's about 5 to 6 more lost games and the Flames not being in the playoffs

Is it enough of a gap to single Hiller out as the Flames starter for 60-ish games? I have no problem conceding that Hiller is a little better statistically. My bone of contention is with Estrada's inflexible notion that he is an uncontested starter.

I will repeat Neither Hiller nor Ramo is a bonafide starting goaltender, which is why they will play on the same rotation that they did last year, so long as both remain with the Flames.

[Benched]

at least LA got pummeled too...

[Ashasx]

Are we seriously calling out Backlund?

Are we really going to do this again with him?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would be fine with this as it worked with Wideman at this time last season and Backlund really needs a bounce back season as last season he was one of the Flames most disappointing forwards. If he can't show improvement at this stage of his career it's probably a sign that he's no longer part of the future.

Backlund is one of my favourite players, but as I was leaving the game last night I mentioned that I thought Backlund was going to the press box for Saturday.

I thought we might see Granlund get a call up and Backlund moved into the press box.

Backlund needs to be a leader this year with Bennett and Monahan as the two young centers and he just didn't step up last night and was making poor decisions on the ice.

Sitting down worked as a wake up call for Wideman last year and could for Backlund this year. Also didn't think Jooris brought enough energy last night and was another guy that I thought could see the press box.

[robaur]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Are we seriously calling out Backlund?

Are we really going to do this again with him?

Yes. Problem? He's not a 2nd line centre.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Is it enough of a gap to single Hiller out as the Flames starter for 60-ish games? I have no problem conceding that Hiller is a little better statistically.

Why not use your best Goalie more?

My bone of contention is with Estrada's inflexible notion that he is an uncontested starter.

Can't disagree here

I will repeat Neither Hiller nor Ramo is a bonafide starting goaltender, which is why they will play on the same rotation that they did last year, so long as both remain with the Flames.

It frustrated that Ramo's best season (last year) still isn't as good as Hiller's worst (last year) and yet Hartley insists on treating them as equally effective or even Ramo as superior

Put your best Goalie in seems like the right thing to do.

[Ashasx]

The whole flipping team was so bad last night that I have trouble identifying one player to single out over the others.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The whole flipping team was so bad last night that I have trouble identifying one player to single out over the others.

No kidding, so many blind passes etc. I think Putin would look good in a Flames jersey last night, dude scored 7 goals in his game.

[Vinny01]

Last night was likely the worst effort the Flames have had since they blew the team up in 2013. A lot of players sucked and it was a wake up call to the room I hope. The team has expectations from outside the room they will be good and Vancouver was going to suck. A couple minutes into the game the Flames looked pretty good and then it fell apart. They need to get back to the effort that won them games last year. The talent is improved but this is not a team that can win lazy games due to superior talent. They still need to outwork their opponents. Saturday's response in Vancouver will go a long way to seeing if this team has the same character that drove them to the second round last year

[saillias]

Neither Backlund nor Bouma have been any good since pre-season.

I don't expect 16 goals from Bouma again but I do expect lots of hits and blocked shots.

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Hilarious how most people wanted to trade Hiller and keep Ramo, and after one loss the opinion has changed. Wish I could find the thread with the poll about which goalies to keep. Never change CP, never change.

Or the people who preferred Hiller to Ramo all along have just piped up now. The Ramo fans will come back after Hiller falters.

[ScorchyScorch]

Start Orts. Might be able to stand on his head while the team figures itself out. He plays the Canucks well.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by robaur

Yes. Problem? He's not a 2nd line centre.

Outside of Frolik that is not a second line. Bouma is not a top 6 forward either