[PGT] Canucks 5 @ Flames 1

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by robaur

That game was more the Sedins being in mid-season form more than anything. They always get a jump on the league in the beginning of the season because they just have such good chemistry playing together.

Once the Sedins stop putting up 6 points a night, that Canucks team is awful and it will show over the course of the season. They're not making the playoffs.

After watching them yesterday, I think they're right in the playoff mix. They've still got underrated center depth with Horvat and McCann, good wing depth with Vrbata, Virtanen, Burrows. Their big 3 on defense - Hamhuis, Edler, and Tanev, are all still great, and Bartowski/Hutton look like very good additions. Goaltending is really the coin flip for them, I don't know what they can expect in net.

On the Flames end:

- Giordano looked brutal last night. One of his worst games I have seen in a while but thats his first NHL game since February.

Really? He was on the ice for some goals against that I wouldn't blame him for, but I didn't think he looked "brutal". Just not "Norris Giordano", which in fairness was partly because Brodie is so good. The goal at the end of the 2nd period is one he'd like back, but that pass should have never made it to the front of the net in the first place. The fifth goal is all on Ramo and Backlund. Overall just a bad night by the team, not any one player.

It's funny though, I was just skimming the Blackhawks' fans PGT for their loss to the rangers and they're talking about how Duncan Keith was worse than David Rundblad.

- Bennett struggled last night and was ineffective most of the game as a direct result of the ineffectiveness that is Josh Jooris. Same problem that Frolik as with Bouma. Josh Jooris is a great "skate in a line" player, but doesn't have enough skill to play with Bennett. Plus, I just don't think Bennett is ready to be a Centre in the NHL if the Flames want any kind of respectable scoring from him.

Sam needs to play center to develop. He wasn't bad yesterday, people are just frustrated because he didn't get any grade A scoring chances. A lot of that is because the Canucks gave him no room to operate. Blaming Jooris is ridiculous. Sam needs to play center and Jooris is a perfectly fine complimentary winger in that role, though a second skill player never hurt, Jooris wasn't holding Sam back nor was playing center. If there's a problem with that line, it's this:

Hartley is uneasy about Sam's D-zone coverage, so he only sends Sam out there in the offensive zone. That means the defense is already in position. Teams don't usually get good scoring chances against a set defense. Most good scoring chances come in at least partial transition. Sam had maybe two shifts with any transition, and in both shifts he was angled wide and couldn't make a play. That's got less to do with playing center and more to do with adjusting to the NHL.

Could putting him back on the wing open up his offense? Sure, but that's not how he needs to develop. We drafted him to play center, not to win the Calder.

[dino7c]

How can anyone blame Ramo for the 3-1 goal...Sedin is allowed to skate right to the net and basically stand on top of him and in reality its a bad bounce

box out Sedin and the puck is directed to the boards, period over

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback

Good enough to make the playoffs last year, and to beat us 5-1 in the opener.

They are an older team with arguably less depth this season. The Canucks have a history of playing very well in the early part of the season, and the Flames have been brutal in their home openers going back the past decade. There is very little to be learned from last night's game.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Komskies

Chicago outshot us like 50-18 in our 5th game last season. We just happened to be extremely lucky and win it 2-1 in OT.

no kidding, people have selective memories if they think the Flames didn't have TONS of games like this last year

[heep223]

[codynw]

Ferland and Frolik may have been the only positives from last night. Everyone else looked horribly out of sync. Hope for a better effort on Saturday.

[dino7c]

Hiller is starting I would bet my house on it...you win you stay in

you lose someone else comes in

[heep223]

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

After watching them yesterday, I think they're right in the playoff mix. They've still got underrated center depth with Horvat and McCann, good wing depth with Vrbata, Virtanen, Burrows. Their big 3 on defense - Hamhuis, Edler, and Tanev, are all still great, and Bartowski/Hutton look like very good additions. Goaltending is really the coin flip for them, I don't know what they can expect in net...

If this was a game in November, I would probably agree with you. But in the opening game of the season, it is almost impossible to get a clear read of any kind on any team. Toronto lost their home opener last night as expected, but were they in any way outplayed by Montreal? No. The Canadiens are a good bet to make the playoffs and the Leafs are likely a lottery team, and yet, they played what amounted to a saw-off game.

As for the Canucks, half of the depth you have identified are either rookies or playing in their second season. I agree that in a few years, players like Hutton, Virtanen, and McCann are likely going to help the Canucks, but I am not at all confident that any one of them will even still be in Vancouver after a few weeks. I still think that while Horvat will one day be a solid second line centre, he will probably struggle a bit this season, and that the team will struggle as a whole to score outside of the top line. I do not think that all three of Tanev, Hamhuis, and Edler are great defensemen.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

...The whole team wasn't in the game, and the Canucks team was fired up. Engelland played with Kulak against a team that was very determined. None of our D was especially good, so to single out Engelland is not correct.

I actually thought that Engelland looked better last night than he did at any point in the first half of last season before he was paired with Brodie. That was somewhat encouraging.

[The Yen Man]

It's really hard to gauge teams based on the first 10-15 games played. Some teams start off hot, and then trail off. Other teams start slow, but round out into form by about game 20. I wouldn't look too much into this first game, good or bad. My prediction is Canucks still finish near the bottom by season's end.

[ScorchyScorch]

The team hasn't returned to form yet. Vets were sluggish all preseason, so I saw this coming. Though maybe not this lopsided of a result.

Canucks were nipping at the bit to put some air back in their egos after last spring. Some teams start faster than others, but this game doesn't have any implications on the bigger picture, as the Flames still have the better, and deeper roster that will get rolling in time.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

It's really hard to gauge teams based on the first 10-15 games played. Some teams start off hot, and then trail off. Other teams start slow, but round out into form by about game 20. I wouldn't look too much into this first game, good or bad. My prediction is Canucks still finish near the bottom by season's end.

True, but you can't just coast the first 10 games either then flick a switch. I'm not concerned right now, but honestly by game 2 or 3 if nothing changes, I'm quite concerned.

I think Johnny saved our season with the miraculous hatty vs the Kings. I hope it doesn't come down to a defining moment like that again, and the Flames consistently stay in the top 8 in the West.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hiller is starting I would bet my house on it

I'm so confident I'd bet my life on it. Ramo did absolutely nothing to warrant another start.

[Benched]

lol if Ortio starts...

[robaur]

Judging by Flames lines at practice today.....Backlund might be a healthy scratch on Saturday....so Flames coaches seeing the same things I mentioned.

They didn't move Bennett to the wing but they moved him up 1 spot to play and gave him a better winger in Frolik.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler
Raymond-Bennett-Frolik
Bouma-Bennett or Jooris-Bollig
Ferland-Stajan-Jones

[flamesfever]

From my experience, watching them over the last 20 years from close up, it usually takes them the first 10 games to develop the chemistry needed to make them successful.

I think our first line will continue to give us a lot of excitement. However, I believe Sam needs more skilled wingers to have an effective 2nd line, and have any hope of competing for the Calder. I would like to see Frolik with him.

Except for a few times, last night was tough to watch. Their play was helter skelter for most of the game in the offensive zone, and the defense was terrible, especially when it involved the twins.

[robaur]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

After watching them yesterday, I think they're right in the playoff mix. They've still got underrated center depth with Horvat and McCann, good wing depth with Vrbata, Virtanen, Burrows. Their big 3 on defense - Hamhuis, Edler, and Tanev, are all still great, and Bartowski/Hutton look like very good additions. Goaltending is really the coin flip for them, I don't know what they can expect in net.

Really? He was on the ice for some goals against that I wouldn't blame him for, but I didn't think he looked "brutal". Just not "Norris Giordano", which in fairness was partly because Brodie is so good. The goal at the end of the 2nd period is one he'd like back, but that pass should have never made it to the front of the net in the first place. The fifth goal is all on Ramo and Backlund. Overall just a bad night by the team, not any one player.

It's funny though, I was just skimming the Blackhawks' fans PGT for their loss to the rangers and they're talking about how Duncan Keith was worse than David Rundblad.

Sam needs to play center to develop. He wasn't bad yesterday, people are just frustrated because he didn't get any grade A scoring chances. A lot of that is because the Canucks gave him no room to operate. Blaming Jooris is ridiculous. Sam needs to play center and Jooris is a perfectly fine complimentary winger in that role, though a second skill player never hurt, Jooris wasn't holding Sam back nor was playing center. If there's a problem with that line, it's this:

Hartley is uneasy about Sam's D-zone coverage, so he only sends Sam out there in the offensive zone. That means the defense is already in position. Teams don't usually get good scoring chances against a set defense. Most good scoring chances come in at least partial transition. Sam had maybe two shifts with any transition, and in both shifts he was angled wide and couldn't make a play. That's got less to do with playing center and more to do with adjusting to the NHL.

Could putting him back on the wing open up his offense? Sure, but that's not how he needs to develop. We drafted him to play center, not to win the Calder.

Norris Giordano has been around for the past calendar year. So to say last night was his worst game isn't inaccurate. I agree TJ Brodie makes him better.

I'm not blaming Jooris. The guy has his own skill set but it does not compliment Bennett. They shouldn't be lineamates. Bennett should be strictly playing with Frolik or Hudler. He needs more skilled wingers to play his game and to help him out. And yes, we did draft Sam to potentially win the Calder. That statement makes no sense. Case in point this morning, Bennett is now centering Frolik. Guess the coaches agree.

[Samiz]

I remember Ortio shutting out the Nucks last year in Vancouver. Maybe it wouldn't a bad thing if he starts

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by robaur

Judging by Flames lines at practice today.....Backlund might be a healthy scratch on Saturday....so Flames coaches seeing the same things I mentioned.

They didn't move Bennett to the wing but they moved him up 1 spot to play and gave him a better winger in Frolik.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler
Raymond-Bennett-Frolik
Bouma-Bennett or Jooris-Bollig
Ferland-Stajan-Jones

I would be fine with this as it worked with Wideman at this time last season and Backlund really needs a bounce back season as last season he was one of the Flames most disappointing forwards. If he can't show improvement at this stage of his career it's probably a sign that he's no longer part of the future.