[News] 2015/2016 Waiver Wire

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Yeah. It would make sense if a team is trying to sneak a player down that they would wait until tomorrow to put him on waivers. As for a player like Raymond you would think you would want to do it as soon as possible. Bahhh don't see Raymond being waived. Hope this does not mean Grandlund gets sent down. Not a good message from the management.

This fear of "not a good message from management" is such a crock. This management has proved over the past couple of seasons that it is prospect friendly and will do right by the players and the team. People need to stop worrying about every little move that gets made and what "message" it sends. Also, people need to stop taking "always earned" so so literally. It doesn't need to apply to every last decision, especially on Oct 4th. Just cause gaining camp is over, doesn't mean the competition for roster spots is over, there's still time people.

Waiving Raymond right now is so dumb. There may be a time in the very near future where that will have to be the move, but to jump the gun and do it now just so Grandlund can not have to be sent down makes no sense. Grandlund looked good, if he keeps it up he might just find himself in the line up on a regular basis very soon. But as of today, I don't actually think I'd replace any of the forwards who are likely to start on Wednesday with him, so what's the hurry to make a decision on Raymond just so Markus can sit next to Loubo in the press box.

That's part of being a younger player trying to make it. Unless you make it so impossible for the team to not have you in he line up, you might have to get caught up in the shuffle a little bit while the team sorts out and tries to maximize its asset situation. My here is nothing wrong with that, or the message it sends.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

This fear of "not a good message from management" is such a crock. This management has proved over the past couple of seasons that it is prospect friendly and will do right by the players and the team. People need to stop worrying about every little move that gets made and what "message" it sends. Also, people need to stop taking "always earned" so so literally. It doesn't need to apply to every last decision, especially on Oct 4th. Just cause gaining camp is over, doesn't mean the competition for roster spots is over, there's still time people.

Waiving Raymond right now is so dumb. There may be a time in the very near future where that will have to be the move, but to jump the gun and do it now just so Grandlund can not have to be sent down makes no sense. Grandlund looked good, if he keeps it up he might just find himself in the line up on a regular basis very soon. But as of today, I don't actually think I'd replace any of the forwards who are likely to start on Wednesday with him, so what's the hurry to make a decision on Raymond just so Markus can sit next to Loubo in the press box.

That's part of being a younger player trying to make it. Unless you make it so impossible for the team to not have you in he line up, you might have to get caught up in the shuffle a little bit while the team sorts out and tries to maximize its asset situation. My here is nothing wrong with that, or the message it sends.

Except it flies in the face of 'always earned, never given.'

If Granlund earned the spot over Raymond so be it and contract status/waiver eligibility be damned.

That being said I would prefer Granlund play instead of sit, which has to factor into the final roster decision. I would also prefer that Raymond be off the NHL roster and I truly hope that Treliving is working on a deal and this is the reason Granlund hasn't been sent down.

[Red Menace]

I would keep Granlund to play him at least rotate him in and out of the linep with a few others. He played more NHL games than AHL games last year, and I think he's done enough to graduate to the big leagues full time.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Except it flies in the face of 'always earned, never given.'

If Granlund earned the spot over Raymond so be it and contract status/waiver eligibility be damned.

That being said I would prefer Granlund play instead of sit, which has to factor into the final roster decision. I would also prefer that Raymond be off the NHL roster and I truly hope that Treliving is working on a deal and this is the reason Granlund hasn't been sent down.

Neither guy will play on Wednesday, so in the short term it doesn't. Also, who decides when "always earned" is decided. If For example, Grandlund spends let's say even a month down in the minors, while the Flames actually play Raymond to try and get a suitor for a trade. Then in a months time, they either pull the trigger on said trade, or give up and waive Raymond, and Markus finds himself called up and in the line up. Is that following "always earned" or is it not?

To me it is. You can't make bad asset decisions because you are worried that a single decision on Oct 4th will be micro analyzed. You have to have a better communication plan in place with your team so that doesn't become the case, and I'm sure the Flames do. It's the reality of any work place really. "Markus as of today, you've earned the job. Unfortunately the position isn't available today, but we are going to work to make it available. Keep your head down for the next few weeks, work hard and it's yours once we can give it to you".

That to me follows always earned nicely, as long as you follow through.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Except it flies in the face of 'always earned, never given.'

If Granlund earned the spot over Raymond so be it and contract status/waiver eligibility be damned.

That being said I would prefer Granlund play instead of sit, which has to factor into the final roster decision. I would also prefer that Raymond be off the NHL roster and I truly hope that Treliving is working on a deal and this is the reason Granlund hasn't been sent down.

Not picking on your specific remarks, but just generally commenting on this idea that cutting players now because of the flexibility in their circumstances somehow flies in the face of the team's mantra and undermines what has been built here.

We're not privy to the conversations between the staff and the players. I find it highly, highly unlikely that any player who is cut goes in and asks the coaches "But I thought I earned a spot, why wasn't a given one?" isn't given an explanation.

We got a sense of what the conversation might have been like between the staff and Wotherspoon - a spot wasn't earned. We can guess what the conversation was like between Treliving and Wilson - a spot wasn't earned.

Who's to say the coaches haven't told Granlund and Treliving "As far as we're concerned, you've earned a spot". Only for Treliving to respond along the lines that while he agrees, the team is also a business with constraints and circumstances that have to be balanced. Which could include assessing players who are on the roster now because of inflexible circumstances such as waiver eligibility, or trade discussions that are pending with other teams, or the team's reluctance to pay NHL salaries to players in the AHL, or a host of other possible things.

If Granlund is assigned before the season starts, it doesn't mean the Flames have abandoned the rebuild, or spit on the mantra, or ruined a young player, or been two faced. It means a deadline has passed, and the team is exercising an option that gives it the most flexibility and the most options going forward. Treliving has stated publicly that he considers having more options is preferable to having fewer options. And this situation may play out like it did last season, when Jooris was assigned after a fantastic camp because he was waiver exempt. The team took some time and tried Setoguchi out in a variety of spots, and likely shopped around the league to drum up interest in him, before finally abandoning him and calling Jooris up to take the spot he had earned.

Within 2-3 weeks, Brodie could return. Within two weeks from there, Colborne could be ready. Smid might even be back in that 4-5 week timetable for all I know. And the coaches have gone on record that running a roster with three goalies is, at best, problematic and disruptive. There's already a ticking clock on moves and decisions that have to be made, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if making room for Granlund and/or Kulak is weighing on those decisions.

Barring further injuries that might alter the current dynamic, I wouldn't be surprised if one of Kulak or Granlund isn't either still on the team or returning to the team. They might not be in Wednesday's line-up. But they'll be around this season.

[Goodlad]

Wasn't the situation with Jooris similar last season? Made the team out of camp, but was sent down for contract reasons until management could make room for him. After Seto proved impossible to make a deal for, he was sent down and Jooris recalled.

Just because Granlund looks like he made the team doesn't mean he'll be on the opening night roster. This doesn't however fly in the face of "always earned, never given." If Raymond is still terrible 15 or so games into the season, and Granlund is still in Stockton you'll have a case for that.

[druetetective]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

Wasn't the situation with Jooris similar last season? Made the team out of camp, but was sent down for contract reasons until management could make room for him. After Seto proved impossible to make a deal for, he was sent down and Jooris recalled.

Just because Granlund looks like he made the team doesn't mean he'll be on the opening night roster. This doesn't however fly in the face of "always earned, never given." If Raymond is still terrible 15 or so games into the season, and Granlund is still in Stockton you'll have a case for that.

No i don't think it was after Seto went down. I remember them playing together. I think Colborne was injured the 1st game and we called Jooris up.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

Wasn't the situation with Jooris similar last season? Made the team out of camp, but was sent down for contract reasons until management could make room for him. After Seto proved impossible to make a deal for, he was sent down and Jooris recalled.

Just because Granlund looks like he made the team doesn't mean he'll be on the opening night roster. This doesn't however fly in the face of "always earned, never given." If Raymond is still terrible 15 or so games into the season, and Granlund is still in Stockton you'll have a case for that.

Agree with everything you said, but I'd go a little further even.

IMO granlund has made nowhere near the impression jooris did. Jooris was outstanding compared to pretty much any player, pretty much every shift. He earned an nhl spot, and while setoguchi was the obvious target, he wasn't the only one.

Granlund was good, especially compared to the bubble players who are in the AHL, most of the time. To me he didn't kick in the door of the nhl, but placed himself first in line as the best of the rest. Good on him, but he still might have to wait his turn.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I would also like to add the whole "earned not given" thing is also very relative. Granlund has earned his right as the first call-up. Raymond? Well, he hasn't earned anything himself, but due to his contract, the Flames will give him a longer leash to earn some ice and try to salvage his career - not to mention salvage some asset value that could benefit the team as well.

If by mid-season Granlund is doing really well down in the AHL, and Raymond is doing poorly in the NHL while still dressing lots, then we can really freak out. One pre-season does not make the mantra valid or invalid.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

Wasn't the situation with Jooris similar last season? Made the team out of camp, but was sent down for contract reasons until management could make room for him. After Seto proved impossible to make a deal for, he was sent down and Jooris recalled.

Just because Granlund looks like he made the team doesn't mean he'll be on the opening night roster. This doesn't however fly in the face of "always earned, never given." If Raymond is still terrible 15 or so games into the season, and Granlund is still in Stockton you'll have a case for that.

Jooris was recalled mid-October when David Jones went on IR. Shortly after Colborne, Stajan and Backlundall left the same game (against Montreal IIRC) and that allowed Jooris to get top 6 time.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I would also like to add the whole "earned not given" thing is also very relative. Granlund has earned his right as the first call-up. Raymond? Well, he hasn't earned anything himself, but due to his contract, the Flames will give him a longer leash to earn some ice and try to salvage his career - not to mention salvage some asset value that could benefit the team as well.

If by mid-season Granlund is doing really well down in the AHL, and Raymond is doing poorly in the NHL while still dressing lots, then we can really freak out. One pre-season does not make the mantra valid or invalid.

In addition, there is nothing that says it had to be earned this year. Raymond earned his contract with his previous play with the Leafs. That is not going to just be forgotten because a year has passed.

I also think people take those little slogans too literal, I think it has little to do with roster spots and everything to do with working hard in games because no one will hand you a W

[sureLoss]

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
LAK expected to put G J.F. Berube on waivers today (Quick/Enroth in net). The 24-yr-old could get claimed. More than one team with interest.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
LAK expected to put G J.F. Berube on waivers today (Quick/Enroth in net). The 24-yr-old could get claimed. More than one team with interest.

Pretty solid AHL stats. If he sneaks through you would have to think Ortio would.

[SuperMatt18]

Didn't realize Enroth signed in L.A.

He is my bet for this years backup goalie on a good defensive team, who puts up great stats, and then gets too much value back in a trade (or signs with Edmonton as the savior the following season).

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Didn't realize Enroth signed in L.A.

He is my bet for this years backup goalie on a good defensive team, who puts up great stats, and then gets too much value back in a trade (or signs with Edmonton as the savior the following season).

Really if you are a team set with a starting goaltender behind an perennial solid defense you can cycle backups in and out and have them behind that defense looking solid then flip them for assets like the Kings have been able to do.

[sureLoss]

Philadelphia Flyers @NHLFlyers
#Flyers to place D Andrew MacDonald on waivers at noon →

[MissTeeks]

That contract was so terrible.

[sureLoss]

Frank Seravalli @frank_seravalli
MacDonald, 29, has 5 years and $23.75 million left on his deal. He was paid a $2 million signing bonus on July 1 by #Flyers.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Philadelphia Flyers @NHLFlyers
#Flyers to place D Andrew MacDonald on waivers at noon →

Wow who could have predicted that to end up as a horrible contract.

That organization needs a house cleaning starting with the owner. It seems the harder Snider tries to win a cup the further the Flyers get away from contending.

[Poe969]

wow. Just wow. I guess a buy out next year or will they pay up for a team to take him?