[News] CalgaryNEXT Announcement. New arena details emerge.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Can they close the roof pretty quickly? My understanding is that it takes a while to close up rectractable roofs, so you'd be unable to respond quickly to Calgary's crazy weather patterns anyways.

Outdoor is nice but Calgary isn't California. The events going ahead as scheduled and uninterrupted is more important, as is attendee comfort. I've only ever been to one Stamps game (last year's western final) and probably won't go again knowing I could just watch on tv in the warmth of my home instead of freezing my arse off at McMahon. A nice indoor stadium could entice me to more games.

If its a translucent roof and allows plenty of natural light you get the best of both worlds anyways.

In Phoenix, it's 12 minutes to close or open the roof. I believe BC place is like 25 minutes though.

[JohnnyT]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I do plan on returning to live in Calgary at some point in my life, but in the near future, 0 Stamps games Once you all settle this damn mess, I'll return and enjoy the benefits

However! I was talking about just preferences. Let's say CSE is generous and decided to pay the whole damn stadium by themselves. Would you not prefer a retractable roof to a enclosed dome? I would think that most folks would prefer the option of having an indoor or outdoor venue just by flicking a switch.

I don't know if that's a good way to look it with a project of this scale. This isn't adding an extra topping to a burger at earls, it's a gigantic increase in cost. I would prefer to drive a Ferrari but I can't afford one so I don't have one

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I do plan on returning to live in Calgary at some point in my life, but in the near future, 0 Stamps games Once you all settle this damn mess, I'll return and enjoy the benefits

However! I was talking about just preferences. Let's say CSE is generous and decided to pay the whole damn stadium by themselves. Would you not prefer a retractable roof to a enclosed dome? I would think that most folks would prefer the option of having an indoor or outdoor venue just by flicking a switch.

This is where it gets interesting though and is why I was curious about how much backlash was from people in Calgary who will use the facilities VS fans who live in other places. You as an example, it's all well and good that you have an opinion on it but in the end you won't be contributing any money to the project.

Your point is moot though because that will never happen. Sure if cost wasn't an issue throw a retractable roof up there, but honestly it doesn't make a difference to me if it is fixed or retractable.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I went to the event yesterday, and think this is a reasonable plan, although details are a bit sparse.

The one thing I really don't like is not moving Bow Trail. That's a missed opportunity to open up the river front. I'd envision a concourse lined with restaurants, with the restaurants all having patios fronting the river. They'd also get use on non-event days then, and it would make it a destination area to attract additional development. I really hope we don't half ass this and then regret it later.

I think the reason they didn't move Bow Trail is because it would be up to the city how to move it.

If the city is smart they would come back with a plan of where to move Bow Trail to and work that into the plan.

[darockwilder]

Sooo, what were the lunch options yesterday so that those attending today can make an informed decision?

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Cappy

It has been established on here already that a CRL is still a public funding. so thats about 450 of 900... then add the lack of interest gained on the ticket tax loan. The remediation of land. the infrastructure changes. and any shortfalls. 2/3 is probably accurate.

Ticket tax includes principal AND interest, and infrastructure/remediation will need to be addressed with or without the project.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I think the reason they didn't move Bow Trail is because it would be up to the city how to move it.

If the city is smart they would come back with a plan of where to move Bow Trail to and work that into the plan.

Or could it just be the hundreds of millions it would take to do it properly?

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by T@T

Or could it just be the hundreds of millions it would take to do it properly?

What do you think would need to be done to do it properly, and why do you think that would takes hundreds of millions?

[Coach]

I like the location, the potential style, and the whole concept really. I don't like the amount of public money going into it or the vagueness of the plan after what seems like a very long planning process. Lots of questions about where the upfront cash was coming from were met with an "I don't know" which I find to be odd. I thought this would be a more formal announcement of financial details with the city's approval, even if there were no rendered designs.

One question I have that may have been answered (as I missed the first few minutes) is, if the city owns the facility, a) is the $200 mil just a "gift" from the Flames? and b) Will the city be paying the Flames to manage the event centre?

Either way, I like the idea, not the way the finances are being brought together though.

[Benched]

Came back to this this morning.

The thing that still bothers me is that the Stamps new stadium is crammed in this project. They basically are looking for a way to cut the cost of building that stadium. Someone knew the city wanted to build a 'fieldhouse' and was budgeting for 200million, so the Flames/Stamps said 'hey lets incorporate that into our design and we'll get the city to build us our stadium since they were going to build something similar anyway! that'll save us 200mill!'

The other big issue, West Village. Until East Village is 'done' and the revitalization is complete, I just don't think we need to revitalize the other side of the city as well. I worry that this will split the 'revitalization' and that people may choose West over East and then we'll end up with a ghost town on the East Village. All those businesses and developers and people who moved out there on the promise of it being the new up and coming area get left holding the bag.


Seriously think, if the Stamps don't economically justify building a new stadium on their own (and they don't)....then scrap that part of the plan. They can continue to play at McMahon stadium, it'll continue to be old, we'll continue to be cold. So be it. The city sponsored fieldhouse is indefinitely on hold it sounds like, so again, no worries. It's debatable how much the city needs it right now anyway.

Go back to building a single new arena for the Flames. The demand is there. Economically if you had more seats you'd make more money. More boxes, more money. Do your ticket tax to help pay for it. Build it with concerts in mind to help keep the space booked for added revenue.


Project is an overreach. West Villeage doesn't NEED to be cleaned today, it's sat there for years already. Doesn't need to be revitalized immediately. Stamps don't support building a new stadium no matter how 'blah' the old one is. These extras are just sales wrapping on building the arena that the Flames need and can be justified, while trying to sneak in a stadium build on the cheap.


PS. I still have serious concerns about transportation to/from the site. "Just take the train". yeah not sure on the math, but 18,000+ people, about what 300/train?.....sure. I love standing around like a sardine for an hour on the platform, pushing and shoving with drunk people, so that I can go home after your event...

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by darockwilder

Sooo, what were the lunch options yesterday so that those attending today can make an informed decision?

Bag lunches on a tables with 6 sandwich options (Veggie, turkey, roast beef, black forest ham, tuna, chicken salad). Also in the bag was a baby bell cheese wheel thing, apple, rice krispy square, Greek saladish Quinoa, and a bottle of sparkling water.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I like the location, the potential style, and the whole concept really. I don't like the amount of public money going into it or the vagueness of the plan after what seems like a very long planning process. Lots of questions about where the upfront cash was coming from were met with an "I don't know" which I find to be odd. I thought this would be a more formal announcement of financial details with the city's approval, even if there were no rendered designs.

One question I have that may have been answered (as I missed the first few minutes) is, if the city owns the facility, a) is the $200 mil just a "gift" from the Flames? and b) Will the city be paying the Flames to manage the event centre?

Either way, I like the idea, not the way the finances are being brought together though.

From my understanding the 200M is a gift to the project but they surely will benefit.

As fro the management details that wasn't really established. I know Francis brought up a revenue sharing since it was city owned and King just rambled on about a formula which didn't really answer anything.

[MelBridgeman]

just build it!

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Then, no offence, but you are an ignorant or just being selective, because it has been pretty well established in this forum.

No it hasn't. Please show me where the City has been asked to contribute more than $200MM.
I don't believe that is the CLR. To me, the CLR is new, not currently existing, money.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Benched

Came back to this this morning.


The other big issue, West Village. Until East Village is 'done' and the revitalization is complete, I just don't think we need to revitalize the other side of the city as well. I worry that this will split the 'revitalization' and that people may choose West over East and then we'll end up with a ghost town on the East Village. All those businesses and developers and people who moved out there on the promise of it being the new up and coming area get left holding the bag.


Seriously think, if the Stamps don't economically justify building a new stadium on their own (and they don't)....then scrap that part of the plan. They can continue to play at McMahon stadium, it'll continue to be old, we'll continue to be cold. So be it. The city sponsored fieldhouse is indefinitely on hold it sounds like, so again, no worries. It's debatable how much the city needs it right now anyway.


Project is an overreach. West Villeage doesn't NEED to be cleaned today, it's sat there for years already. Doesn't need to be revitalized immediately. Stamps don't support building a new stadium no matter how 'blah' the old one is. These extras are just sales wrapping on building the arena that the Flames need and can be justified, while trying to sneak in a stadium build on the cheap.

PS. I still have serious concerns about transportation to/from the site. "Just take the train". yeah not sure on the math, but 18,000+ people, about what 300/train?.....sure. I love standing around like a sardine for an hour on the platform, pushing and shoving with drunk people, so that I can go home after your event...

As KK mentioned, 5 years before cutting tape is a very optimistic goal. And this is not cutting tape on the entire area, but the facility itself. The idea is that the facility will prompt more private revitalization in the area, which which it's proximity to the core, it likely will.

But for your concerns on timelines, East Village should be up and running for a few years before any major revitalization happens in the West Village. Same for transportation. We should have a full set of 4-car trains by that time and, if this project is green lit, possibly and re-worked station for the arena which would include more space (maybe a two-tiered station?).

The point of the project pitch is not so much that the Flames and/or Stamps need it, it's that the city needs it. Can the Stamps use McMahon? Of course. But if Calgary wants to make pitches for things like Olympics, Soccer events, track and field competitions, tennis tournaments, etc.. then ya, we do need an up-to-date facility. Whether or not you are a person who wants those things is a different question, but if CALGARY wants those things, then we need something like this.

[Frequitude]

My expectation is that the Flames would pay some sort of lease fee to the owner of the building (i.e. the city).

Interestingly, the city has basically chosen to donate any operating profit as owners of the Saddledome instead of keep it for tax payers. The Saddledome Foundation pays the city $1 to effectively be a not-for-profit landlord. In that capacity they receive lease payments from the Flames and naming rights on the Saddledome then pay Saddledome op costs. Anything left ove, less $1, is donated to Hockey Canada and amateur sports. So the city could have been receiving money to own it but chose to invest it in the community instead. I wonder if a similar deal would be made for the new arena.

[DFO]

Originally Posted by Benched

The other big issue, West Village. Until East Village is 'done' and the revitalization is complete, I just don't think we need to revitalize the other side of the city as well. I worry that this will split the 'revitalization' and that people may choose West over East and then we'll end up with a ghost town on the East Village. All those businesses and developers and people who moved out there on the promise of it being the new up and coming area get left holding the bag.

Project is an overreach. West Villeage doesn't NEED to be cleaned today, it's sat there for years already. Doesn't need to be revitalized immediately. Stamps don't support building a new stadium no matter how 'blah' the old one is. These extras are just sales wrapping on building the arena that the Flames need and can be justified, while trying to sneak in a stadium build on the cheap.

This. The city has it's hands full with the East Village still. Why should they then agree to be leveraged that much more in the WV? In this new economic reality how much additional private development could we expect that wouldn't be 'poached' from the EV?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Benched

Came back to this this morning.

The thing that still bothers me is that the Stamps new stadium is crammed in this project. They basically are looking for a way to cut the cost of building that stadium. Someone knew the city wanted to build a 'fieldhouse' and was budgeting for 200million, so the Flames/Stamps said 'hey lets incorporate that into our design and we'll get the city to build us our stadium since they were going to build something similar anyway! that'll save us 200mill!'

The other big issue, West Village. Until East Village is 'done' and the revitalization is complete, I just don't think we need to revitalize the other side of the city as well. I worry that this will split the 'revitalization' and that people may choose West over East and then we'll end up with a ghost town on the East Village. All those businesses and developers and people who moved out there on the promise of it being the new up and coming area get left holding the bag.


Seriously think, if the Stamps don't economically justify building a new stadium on their own (and they don't)....then scrap that part of the plan. They can continue to play at McMahon stadium, it'll continue to be old, we'll continue to be cold. So be it. The city sponsored fieldhouse is indefinitely on hold it sounds like, so again, no worries. It's debatable how much the city needs it right now anyway.

Go back to building a single new arena for the Flames. The demand is there. Economically if you had more seats you'd make more money. More boxes, more money. Do your ticket tax to help pay for it. Build it with concerts in mind to help keep the space booked for added revenue.


Project is an overreach. West Villeage doesn't NEED to be cleaned today, it's sat there for years already. Doesn't need to be revitalized immediately. Stamps don't support building a new stadium no matter how 'blah' the old one is. These extras are just sales wrapping on building the arena that the Flames need and can be justified, while trying to sneak in a stadium build on the cheap.


PS. I still have serious concerns about transportation to/from the site. "Just take the train". yeah not sure on the math, but 18,000+ people, about what 300/train?.....sure. I love standing around like a sardine for an hour on the platform, pushing and shoving with drunk people, so that I can go home after your event...

You raise some valid concerns, but if now isn't the right time, when is? When is the right time to spend money on new stadium ventures? When is the right time to finally clean up the west village?
There will always be a reason not to spend money on a football stadium. McMahon stadium is an absolute POS. Location and access sucks, the stadium itself sucks, and it isn't use for anything more than Stamps games. You can't even have concerts there.

A new well suited location could be vastly more useful not only for stamps games, but much more.

Might as well look at a solution that address multiple needs for Calgary as a city. The Dome and McMahon are way past their best days, and it gives an impetus to clean up the west village sooner rather than later.

What future proposal is going to come along at the right time that people won't just find more reasons to "leave it alone"?

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

No it hasn't. Please show me where the City has been asked to contribute more than $200MM.
I don't believe that is the CLR. To me, the CLR is new, not currently existing, money.

Not only that but there are plenty of other things that have been "well established" in this thread only and that have come out of people's arses. KK said flat out that they have to determine who manages the ticket tax up front costs...they will ask and work hard with the city.

I voted that I need more info but too may people are just making crap up and running with it so I believe I need to just avoid this thread.

[Southside]

Re a retractable roof. I thought King said last night that they priced that option out at $150 million.

Lets do a little cost benefit analysis. Say the stadium hosts 10 open air events every year (football or otherwise) on nice days. Over a 40 year lifespan that would equate to 400 events. An additional $375,000 per event.

Anyone responsible for costs would walk away from that.

Not to mention these retractable roofs always seem to be maintenance heavy and an exercise in frustration to plan around weather and changing weather.