Federal Election Called for Oct 19, 2015

[karl262]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Some of this stuff (although well known by many) is just appalling behaviour in a so-called democracy.



If you removed all the references to Canada and Harper from the article, would any of the CPC supporters on here think the article was talking about an open and fair democracy? I think that's what's most frustrating about hearing the "Yeah, but oil! Ma jerb!" or the "Well I benefit from UCCB and income-splitting" stuff. We seem to be perfectly okay to sacrifice real, fundamental, democratic principles in exchange for minor economic benefits or the fear of hypothetical economic consequences. You're selling your democracy for pennies on the dollar, IMO.

You make it seem like we should expect an armed CPC supporter making sure you check the right box on election day, settle down. On election day every eligible Canadian voter can vote for whichever candidate they choose, without having to disclose anything or explain anything, or abstain from voting for whatever reason they may have. Further, we are free to discuss politics and government openly up to and including criticizing any political figure or policy without fear. Our democracy isn't perfect, but it's in good shape.

The quip about ma jerb however, that sort of thing is not useful at all. A condescending remark that suggests that any CPC supporter must be an uneducated, shortsighted redneck. Please tell me how compartmentalizing people of differing opinions from yours as low functioning idiots, probably intimidating people from offering a different perspective for fear of being branded a "ma jerb" redneck, helps democracy?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by karl262

You make it seem like we should expect an armed CPC supporter making sure you check the right box on election day, settle down. On election day every eligible Canadian voter can vote for whichever candidate they choose, without having to disclose anything or explain anything, or abstain from voting for whatever reason they may have. Further, we are free to discuss politics and government openly up to and including criticizing any political figure or policy without fear. Our democracy isn't perfect, but it's in good shape.

Elections and discourse aren't really that democratic when pertinent information is being deliberately withheld from the public, or when the ruling party is attempting to subvert the entire process (robocalls).

Russians are allowed to participate in all of the activities you've mentioned, but I doubt anyone on here would consider Russia a beacon of democracy. And now I get to wait for someone to strawman the whole debate by claiming that I'm saying Canada is the same as Russia.

The quip about ma jerb however, that sort of thing is not useful at all. A condescending remark that suggests that any CPC supporter must be an uneducated, shortsighted redneck. Please tell me how compartmentalizing people of differing opinions from yours as low functioning idiots, probably intimidating people from offering a different perspective for fear of being branded a "ma jerb" redneck, helps democracy?

Well I kinda thought people would be able to tell I was being facetious.

[RedHot25]

I know its not directly on the current discussion but an interesting side tidbit: former police chief Rick Hanson, he who just ran for the PC party provincially, has an endorsed a candidate in his riding and I'm not sure its who I expected - liberal candidate Nirmala Naidoo. Interesting.

[JohnnyB]

I don't think there's anything irrational about being concerned over how a party might influence the industry that you work in. Seems pretty normal to me. I just don't see how anyone can really look at what the conservatives have achieved and think that they're particularly good for the economy.

From my particular point of view, watching Canada's relationship with China develop over the last ten years, I feel as though the conservatives have stumbled and bumbled incompetently for years. The FIPA deal now locks Canada into a deal for three decades, with virtually no public discussion or discussion in parliament. I can't help but worry that, based on their incompetence and complete lack of understanding of China shown over the last decade, the details that were never given real opportunity to be discussed in public before ratification are going to be hurting Canadians economically for a generation.

At the same time, the conservatives have no doubt been terrible for the state of the country socially and democratically. Harper seems to have disdain for Canada's political and electoral system. The main drive of the conservatives under Harper has been to centralise power in the PM's office and manipulate political discourse through that control. These are not practises that show respect for the nature of Canada's political system and I believe threaten to harm Canada long-term. From the outside, it has felt like watching the Americanisation of Canada with a party that wants to be the Republicans north of the border.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I don't think there's anything irrational about being concerned over how a party might influence the industry that you work in. Seems pretty normal to me. .

It's normal yes, but there's a nice long line of posters on CP ready to make us feel like loyal dummies for being concerned every chance they get.

[Mr.Coffee]

I assume rube was making fun of me but my point sort of still stands. I understand the CPC have done a lot of not-so-great things, but again when I look at the things that I value in my life, my family and being able to take care of them is number one. I agree with many posters, including rube, on the various things the CPC have done that may not be terrific for social policy. I even agree to a certain extent with the posters who have stated the CPC haven't really done much for economic policy either. But I'm not sure they've destroyed it, and I feel like the other options just might destroy the oil and gas sector, or do something idiotic and that would threaten my job. Wasn't it Trudeau's dad that basically crippled Calgary in the '80's? The NDP and Greens just sound completely out to lunch on energy policy. But I can't yet suggest that my industry's current struggles are a result of the CPC either, it's prices. And I'm really not sure that would be the case if (particularly) the NDP got voted in. I guess one of my main concerns is that if we have a provincial NDP, and then a federal NDP, our provincial NDP government will start acting a lot more in line with what the federal group wants due to visions of grandeur, and if Notley wants a career after provincial politics she'd better be in lock step with the federal group, which doesn't seem too fond of oil and gas in general, and likely will enact policy that would drive out the company I work for from the country. This is already a risk with the provincial group in place.

Of course I don't want to give up democratic rights, see tough on crime policies or cuts to science and research. But I don't value those things above what's best for my family which today includes me having a job. And none of those things mentioned have really impacted me that much, or from what I can tell? I dunno I might be out to lunch here and I know I am uneducated when it comes to overall politics and the various parties so I appreciate all the responses in general for or against what I believe.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

#### it.

This thread has become useless for anyone wanting to talk about this election campaign or understand platform / party positions. It took less than two weeks.

To those of you campaigning in here, you are an example of what is wrong with this entire process.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

#### it.

This thread has become useless for anyone wanting to talk about this election campaign or understand platform / party positions. It took less than two weeks.

To those of you campaigning in here, you are an example of what is wrong with this entire process.

What or who are you even mad at? I don't even get what you're talking about, everything I've read for the most part has been relevant to the election.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Relevance isn't the issue and I'm more bitterly annoyed than angry. There just is no conversation or honest curiosity or inquiry available here, or where it is it needs to be searched for amongst pages of self-serving crap.

I recognize that this thread does not exist to serve my purposes nor are people here required to post about this topic in the manner that I would find most useful or enlightening, much less most interesting. But I'm just venting my frustration with it all.

I mean, in fairness, it's not just this thread. This is really just symptomatic of the reasons I have completely lost... I was going to say "lost interest in participating in this process", but that's not quite right: it's more like I've lost the will. It's not just boring. It's demoralizing.

I'm sure someone will now make a smarmy sarcastic post about how no one particularly cares, so whoever wants to grab that low-hanging fruit, give yourself a pat on the back.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

I know its not directly on the current discussion but an interesting side tidbit: former police chief Rick Hanson, he who just ran for the PC party provincially, has an endorsed a candidate in his riding and I'm not sure its who I expected - liberal candidate Nirmala Naidoo. Interesting.

[creepy loser] I was totally in love with Nirmala Naidoo when I was growing up in Calgary.

[/creepy loser]

[octothorp]

We all were, Makarov. We all were.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by octothorp

We all were, Makarov. We all were.

Lol. Yep.

One of the last times I voluntarily listened to CJAY, the doofus on the air was making fun of her name. Nirrrrrrrmala.....Nirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmala. ..

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Makarov

[creepy loser] I was totally in love with Nirmala Naidoo when I was growing up in Calgary.

[/creepy loser]

My guess is we will get more candidates from the media replacing the lawyers. A guy like Trump who knows how to play it or manipulate it, will outshine the stuffy lawyers.

[transplant99]

So...according to that bastion of journalistic integrity known as the Toronto Star (snicker), the PM's of Canada, the UK and Australia are bigger threats than ISIS.

for real...this was printed in something some considered a credible source for information...at least when it serves their purpose.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/20...is-burman.html

Simply unbelievable.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

My guess is we will get more candidates from the media replacing the lawyers. A guy like Trump who knows how to play it or manipulate it, will outshine the stuffy lawyers.

That is an interesting thought.

There used to be an emphasis on being able to be quick on your feet and to be able to argue well with your opponents (hence so many lawyers). Now it seems that it is more important to present a certain image and to be able to stay on script. I think we see more "celebrity" candidates too; actors, athletes, newscasters, etc..

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So...according to that bastion of journalistic integrity known as the Toronto Star (snicker), the PM's of Canada, the UK and Australia are bigger threats than ISIS.

for real...this was printed in something some considered a credible source for information...at least when it serves their purpose.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/20...is-burman.html

Simply unbelievable.

I don't see anything wrong with the article myself. Perhaps you can expand on what you don't agree with. He never said they were a greater threat than ISIS, he said they were taking advantage of fear mongering to further their own aims while ignoring global warming.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I don't see anything wrong with the article myself. Perhaps you can expand on what you don't agree with. He never said they were a greater threat than ISIS, he said they were taking advantage of fear mongering to further their own aims while ignoring global warming.

Of course you don't...its right out of the lefties playbook.

here is a conclusion from the guy that wrote it...I will leave you to your own devices to construe what he is talking about but will give you a hint...it surely isn't ISIS.

In my view, if this doesn’t fit the criteria of an “international movement” posing “a very serious menace to this planet,” I don’t know what does

The rhetoric in such a statement is asinine and should never see the pages of a reputable publication.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Of course you don't...its right out of the lefties playbook.

here is a conclusion from the guy that wrote it...I will leave you to your own devices to construe what he is talking about but will give you a hint...it surely isn't ISIS.



The rhetoric in such a statement is asinine and should never see the pages of a reputable publication.

Okay, so he overstates his conclusion but I would suggest that our freedoms are being eroded by these politicians. The fear mongering Harper and his cohorts do for their own gain is worse than what this reporter has to say.

I'll add that what you see the right wing in the States doing to subvert democracy and than watching Harper following the same path, his statement isn't out of line.

[flamesfan6]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Of course you don't...its right out of the lefties playbook.

The rhetoric in such a statement is asinine and should never see the pages of a reputable publication.

You forgot to include this

After all, the formula is simple: Wildly exaggerate the actual threat. Inflame the rhetoric. Blame Muslims. Brush aside issues of human rights. And strap in — while the votes flow your way. It is a clever way to distract voters from more immediate and genuine threats, such as climate change and the economy.

before quoting

In my view, if this doesn’t fit the criteria of an “international movement” posing “a very serious menace to this planet,” I don’t know what does.

you're cherry picking sentences out of the article out of context to prove your point (a typical righties playbook move)

It may have been a weirdly titled article for what it is (and I'm guessing that all you did was read the headline and not the actual article - and cherry picked one sentence out of it), you'd realize that the article was talking about

a) climate change should be talked about more
b) Canada, UK, Australia have pm's that are using fear to try to keep power, and that the rhetoric is all the same from all 3
c) doesn't say anything that says IS isn't a threat

[evman150]

We have way more to worry about from right wing fear and ignorance-driven governments than we do from IS.