CBC reporter files complaint with RCMP over unwanted kiss

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't consider it sexual. I'd think it was weird/inappropriate/whatever. My mom kisses me on the cheek. I kiss her on the cheek. Same with my grandma, nieces, aunts, daughter, etc. There is nothing sexual about a kiss on the cheek.

Say you're sitting at work, doing your job, and a random drunk guy, several inches taller and probably 40 pounds bigger, just shows up and kisses you.

That isn't going to rattle you a bit?

And when you have friends and colleagues who are regularly having random larger drunk guys showing up and kissing them, shouting offensive things at them, etc, while just trying to get your jobs done?

After a while you aren't going to be bothered by this?

That's what's missing in this argument. There's no context for the fact that stuff like this is happening all the time to women in this profession. This isn't a one-off thing. This is a regular occurrence. She's trying to stop it from happening, even if this instance is minor.

Originally Posted by V

"Sorry I sexually assaulted you."

"It's alright, I'm over it."

Somehow that doesn't sound right.

You get angry at a friend while drunk at a bar and punch him in the face. Technically you assaulted him.

You get angry at someone else and beat the hell out of them and they end up hospitalized. They were still assaulted, but the result is different.

There are varying levels of assault, sexual or otherwise. Also varying levels of punishment/response for said varying levels of offense.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The grandma comparison was to give a frame of reference for just how sexual a kiss on the cheek is, which is to say it isn't sexual at all. Slapping an ass is different because an ass is a private part. You wouldn't slap your grandma on the ass, but you would kiss her on the cheek.

Baseball players slap each other on the ass all the time. Is that sexual?

What is comes down to is consent, whether a kiss or whatever.

[Red Potato Standing By]

So how do you know the person didn't intend it sexually? Maybe it is a fetish.

[polak]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What is comes down to is consent, whether a kiss or whatever.

Literally any form of touching can be called assault.

This is getting ridiculous.

Better not pat someone on the back before explicitly getting permission to do so. Preferably in written form, with a lawyer present.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The grandma comparison was to give a frame of reference for just how sexual a kiss on the cheek is, which is to say it isn't sexual at all. Slapping an ass is different because an ass is a private part. You wouldn't slap your grandma on the ass, but you would kiss her on the cheek.

An ass cheek is a private part? I guess private parts were sure on display at the beach this weekend and *gasp* there were kids everywhere.

I would hug my Grandma, if she were still alive, and it would be a nice long one because I haven't seen her in a while. So I guess you're fine if an inebriated young man came up to you wife in public and gave her a nice long hug.

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by Zevo

OK, we'll take the kid out of it. The original post I replied to was trying to equate drunkenly kissing an unaware stranger to kissing your grandmother. Also not really a fair comparison.

How about if I drunkenly slap you wifes ass in the produce department, not hard just a nice little double tap as i smile at her. I mean I do that to my wife sometimes when i come home and she's making dinner. I'm not trying to have sex with her, just playing around, being friendly.

I'm betting your reaction wouldn't be to look at her and say " relax honey, he probably does that with his wife and really means nothing by it".

Now I'm not saying anything about sexual assault, just that because you do something with a family member, doesn't make it okay to do with a stranger.

Once again where did I say anything of the sort.

I rolled back a poor exaggeration of an example to one that was a little less baited and more realistic. I was not taking sides one of side or the other.

Just because someone doesn't agree with your exaggeration, then it mean they are therefore firmly planted on the other side of the fence

I really don't care if someone is family or a stranger and it makes zero difference to me... what i did have a difference was equaling a 17 yrold kissing a woman on the check to a drunk man kissing a child on a playground

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by polak

Literally any form of touching can be called assault.

This is getting ridiculous.

Better not pat someone on the back before explicitly getting permission to do so. Preferably in written form, with a lawyer present.

Or just don't touch strangers,easy concept. No lawyer or consent needed.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

Or just don't touch strangers,easy concept. No lawyer or consent needed.

Agreed, but guess what, occasionally drunk kids do stupid things, some times they'll put their arms around you or some times they'll go really crazy and stupid and peck a person on the cheek as a prank.

Maybe stop labeling them as sexual predators?

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Once again where did I say anything of the sort.

I rolled back a poor exaggeration to an example that was a little less baited of for a more realistic. I was not taking sides one of side or the other.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you then it mean they they are therefore are firmly planted on the other side of the fence

I really don't care if someone is family or a stranger and it makes zero difference to me... what is did have a difference was equaling a 17 yrold kissing a woman on the check to a drunk man kissing a child on a playground

Holy #### dude, I never said you did say anything, but since YOU joined the conversation I was explaining to YOU what I meant and since YOU disagreed with the scenario I changed it, all the while saying I was replying to Sliver.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Yup, it does. I find it amusing that people seem to think they know how someone else should feel about it.

Including yourself.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Zevo

An ass cheek is a private part? I guess private parts were sure on display at the beach this weekend and *gasp* there were kids everywhere.

I would hug my Grandma, if she were still alive, and it would be a nice long one because I haven't seen her in a while. So I guess you're fine if an inebriated young man came up to you wife in public and gave her a nice long hug.

You didn't know asses were private parts? As a male, there are literally two things you can't show at a beach: your dick/ball combo and your ass. Of course asses are private parts.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Say you're sitting at work, doing your job, and a random drunk guy, several inches taller and probably 40 pounds bigger, just shows up and kisses you.

That isn't going to rattle you a bit?

And when you have friends and colleagues who are regularly having random larger drunk guys showing up and kissing them, shouting offensive things at them, etc, while just trying to get your jobs done?

After a while you aren't going to be bothered by this?

That's what's missing in this argument. There's no context for the fact that stuff like this is happening all the time to women in this profession. This isn't a one-off thing. This is a regular occurrence. She's trying to stop it from happening, even if this instance is minor.





You get angry at a friend while drunk at a bar and punch him in the face. Technically you assaulted him.

You get angry at someone else and beat the hell out of them and they end up hospitalized. They were still assaulted, but the result is different.

There are varying levels of assault, sexual or otherwise. Also varying levels of punishment/response for said varying levels of offense.

Sure I'd be rattled. But I wouldn't classify myself as the victim of a sexual assault.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by polak

Agreed, but guess what, occasionally drunk kids do stupid things, some times they'll put their arms around you or some times they'll go really crazy and stupid and peck a person on the cheek as a prank.

Maybe stop labeling them as sexual predators?

Yeah and its really scary. You may not realize it.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sure I'd be rattled. But I wouldn't classify myself as the victim of a sexual assault.

But would you take steps to stop it?

If it was an ongoing problem in your workplace, if random drunk people (or even not drunk people, just dumb bros who decided it was a funny thing to do) kept interrupting your work, your coworkers, embarrassing you in front of other employees, managers, your boss, etc.

If regularly this was an issue--would you not make a complaint to management to stop it?

That is all this is. She isn't demanding that they throw him in jail, she isn't demanding major punishment. But she was drawing attention to the problem, and hopefully in the future, dumb bros like him will realize that maybe this isn't a good idea. Maybe they'll realize that their dumb drunk ideas might actually affect other people. Maybe they can stop this current stupid FHITP mentality.

And that he's drunk is not an excuse. If a drunk guy decides to take a joy ride in a golf cart--guess what, in a lot of US states it's still a DUI, even if really, a drunken ride in a golf cart is mostly harmless.

[Sliver]

Sure I would take steps to stop it. I've agreed throughout this thread she was wronged. I have disagreed that she was sexually assaulted.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Sliver

You didn't know asses were private parts? As a male, there are literally two things you can't show at a beach: your dick/ball combo and your ass. Of course asses are private parts.

I need to go to your beach, the ones I go to have way to many guys breaking the law by wearing speedos

asses are not a private part, thongs only cover the crack and I don't believe anyone meant going around patting other peoples crack.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Including yourself.

I guess. I was trying to say she has a right to feel she was sexually assaulted even if people on the internet felt it wasn't. Then someone mentioned kissing grandmothers and it went off the rails from there.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sure I would take steps to stop it. I've agreed throughout this thread she was wronged. I have disagreed that she was sexually assaulted.

This is interesting.

You have repeatedly called this incident a sexual assault. You don't know if that's true.

But somehow you know it isn't a sexual assault. Your proof being various familial cheek pecks.

So you think there was a "wrong" committed but not a sexual assault? What would you call the wrong that happened?

Anyway, you're still calling sexual assault rape so this is hopeless. Here's a conclusion from a study marking the changes in our legal system since we got rid of the term "rape" in 1983. It summarizes the point I was awkwardly tying to make..

Far from emphasizing the assaultive nature of the crime, police practices unfound large numbers of complaints and classify almost all remaining cases as level 1. The effect has been to portray sexual assault complaints as vexatious and frivolous. Until a commitment is made to address the prejudices in the response to sexual violence, women's experiences will continue to be trivialized, male-centred definitions of women's sexuality will be reinforced, violent men will not be held accountable, and women's rights to sexual integrity, equality, and justice will continue to be denied.

http://ywcacanada.ca/data/research_docs/00000308.pdf

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

But that's beside the point. The issue with people blowing this off as a nothing event is that 1) most sex assaults in Canada go unreported. The main reason for this is that people think that they are not important enough to report. A part of that problem is people going "it's no big deal" "if someone kissed me I wouldn't worry about it" and so on. It is a big deal if for no other reason than to encourage people who would actually feel assaulted by a random kiss on the whatever.

Originally Posted by polak

Are you giving people crap for thinking they would not report this?
So because you think it's an outrage, I have to think it's an outrage too?

I've had my junk firmly grabbed by random girls at festivals before. 100% sexual assault by the law. Reporting it never even crossed my mind. Does that make me a bad person?

I don't believe anyone is saying you are a bad person for not reporting it but if you wanted to report it you should not have to feel shamed for being a victim. And you don't have to be outraged, but some are outraged so you can't tell them how to feel.

What is a bad situation is telling someone who reported this to police that they are wrong to have done so and should just get on with their lives. (not trying to call you out here polak, there seems to be a lot of people telling a victim of assault to get over it)


There is no doubt she was harassed or assaulted, sexual or not I don't care. It's up to the RCMP and judges to define the exact terms they want to use on it. They could call it murder in the 9th degree as much as I care, the fact is what he did was wrong and there should be punishment, be it community service or just a fine, something to show this is not something we should be condoning in society. I don't think it matters that she was working or the guy was drunk, last I checked being drunk was not an excuse from the law for assault. If a person walking the streets downtown during the day was just kissing everyone in site and running away as people were going to work I sure hope that would be illegal and I would sure hope that I could claim self defence after decking said asshat.

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

When you consider it in context with the ongoing issue with the FHRITP idiocy, then I would say that the intent here isn't to "raise their/her profile", but to raise the profile of how reporters - especially female reporters - are harassed on an ongoing basis, usually right on (or over) the border of sexual harassment.

I think that what you are seeing here is the media continuing to fight back against harassment that a bunch of ######bros with raging male privilege mistakenly think is harmless.

Quoted because this is exactly right, and seemed to just get bypassed. This isn't just some silly isolated incident. The big picture has to be considered, and this fits into the recent trend of young men harassing female reporters. Threatening criminal charges and bringing this incident into the spotlight is about dissuading people from continuing the trend, not punishing this particular young man for one silly inappropriate act, as is evidenced by the fact that his apology was enough for her to not press charges and his name hasn't been released.