[Rumour] Giordano Extension. Kypreos: Starting point is $72 million over 8 years

[Lanny_McDonald]

A contract like Giordano's is all about measuring risk. Will Giordano still be an effective player after 35? Time catches up to athletes quickly after that birthday. The body doesn't recoup from injuries as quickly, and Giordano has a history of missing games because of injury. In the last three full seasons he's missed 21, 18 and 21 games. That's almost 1/4 of the time played. That is a lot of risk to assume.

I said this in another thread and I restate it here as well. Every dollar overpaid to one player has to come out of the budget elsewhere. You really need to see the numbers in action to get a better understanding of what a few dollars here and there means. Take a $70M budget as an example, which is a fair number to use considering the cap and the space you need for call-ups for injuries and such. I would think a healthy budget breakdown is going to look like $40M on forwards, $24M on defense, and $6M on goaltending. So something like this, taking names out the mix.

$7M-$7M-$5M
$3M-$5M-$3M
$2M-$3M-$2M
$1M-$1M-$1M
$.75M-$.75M

$7M-$5M
$4M-$3M
$2M-$1.5M
.75M

$5M
$1M

That projection actually comes out $70.75M, or just a hair over budget. When you start plugging names and numbers into the matrix you start to see how actual dollars and cutting corners here and there mean all the difference in the world. We're already a little over budget in some instances, and corrections need to be made before over-extending in others.

Based on where this team is headed with talent up front, I don't see how Giordano fits into the mix with what he is demanding. If you over pay him you put the team in a precarious situation of having a budget that could allow your best young assets to be pillaged via offer sheet. I don't think the team can afford to work beyond its means when it comes to the budget and put players as risk because of over payment elsewhere, We already have some problems up front we need to deal with in short order. Stajan and Raymond both have contracts with term than have to be moved. You cannot afford to have $6.25M of budget space languishing on the 4th line. In that same vein you can't over-extend a player that may not produce compared to what he paid. I just don't see a salary structure that can pay Giordano the $8-9M he wants and not cripple the team long term. I would hate to see the Flames sign Giordano to a 7 year $56M contract, then lose a string of good young players because of that contract. It might be time to part ways and look for other options.

[Vinny01]

I know this is unpopular but finer did trade Gio I wonder if a package around him plus one of our better prospects (Granlund, Klimchuck, Jankowski) could land Drouin and one of stamp as D like Coburn or Garrison?

Adding Drouin would give the Flames an elite young playmaker to pair with Bennett and give the Flames 2 you Duos that could develop together. Adding Hamilton and whichever Dman cap dump Tampa sends out way would still give the Flames a formidable D.

Tampa would go all in to win the cup next year but with Stamkos and Gio upcoming UFA's I don't see them wanting to give up Drouin for one shot at the cup

[Bingo]

Its a tough situation.

A guy that wants to get paid a lot of money can only fit in so many rosters. That's a fact, and why we see less movement.

The Flames love the guy and want to pay him, but they realize that they could be shooting themselves in the foot if they go say 8 years and 8 million given the young roster coming up behind him.

The only way I see this working out is if Giordano goes home town discount (unlikely) or the two sides agree that this is a two not one contract situation and live with the risk on both sides for that second deal.

He could walk. The Flames may not want him. He could improve more and get more on that second deal. Or he could slide and get much less on that second deal.

Then you pound out a 3 year 24 million dollar contract and take it from there.

[Enoch Root]

Little chance he goes for it, but the 3 year deal is by far the best solution.

[Bingo]

when faced with "then I guess we'll have to trade you" you never know what he will accept.

[Yoho]

Ask Darryl Sutter what he thinks Gio will do with a take it or leave it deal.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I know this is unpopular but finer did trade Gio I wonder if a package around him plus one of our better prospects (Granlund, Klimchuck, Jankowski) could land Drouin and one of stamp as D like Coburn or Garrison?

Adding Drouin would give the Flames an elite young playmaker to pair with Bennett and give the Flames 2 you Duos that could develop together. Adding Hamilton and whichever Dman cap dump Tampa sends out way would still give the Flames a formidable D.

Tampa would go all in to win the cup next year but with Stamkos and Gio upcoming UFA's I don't see them wanting to give up Drouin for one shot at the cup

ya, i don't think the flames can go over 5 years here. And if it comes to that they need to determine where they are at in the competitive team building process. I think the there's still a year or 2 until this team is looked at as a real force in the West. Main concern of course is if you move Gio does it create a bit of derailment off the current positive course the franchise has taken for 2 seasons now with Giordano as captain.

If we do move him, i would like to try to get a dman back some how though. A team like the ducks that have plenty of solid young dmen, but there time is now, so perhaps locking in on a real #1 dman like gio is worth giving up some of those young guys. Naturally not ideal given that they play in the same division, but am wondering if there are other teams like this out there that have NHL ready young dmen that a GM is willing to part with for the current reward.

[Lanny_McDonald]

This may be exactly why the Franson to Calgary stuff is still hanging out there. Flames sign Franson then trade Giordano. They should recoup a couple substantial pieces in a trade like that. Hell, trade him to Buffalo for McCabe, Bailey and a pick, and profit.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by New Era

This may be exactly why the Franson to Calgary stuff is still hanging out there. Flames sign Franson then trade Giordano. They should recoup a couple substantial pieces in a trade like that. Hell, trade him to Buffalo for McCabe, Bailey and a pick, and profit.

I bet the Dougie trade & signing raised an eyebrow or two in Gio's camp. Gio's agent probably began negotiations thinking Gio is un-tradeable. Now with a young Dougie running around with a young Brodie, an old Gio isn't as un-tradeable anymore.

[CliffFletcher]

The question is whether Gio/Winter will be willing to walk even if they know they won't get a 5+ year deal elsewhere.

[CroFlames]

I'm just not sure anymore.

I think the Gio situation actually worries me more than the October election.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

ya, i don't think the flames can go over 5 years here. And if it comes to that they need to determine where they are at in the competitive team building process. I think the there's still a year or 2 until this team is looked at as a real force in the West. Main concern of course is if you move Gio does it create a bit of derailment off the current positive course the franchise has taken for 2 seasons now with Giordano as captain.

If we do move him, i would like to try to get a dman back some how though. A team like the ducks that have plenty of solid young dmen, but there time is now, so perhaps locking in on a real #1 dman like gio is worth giving up some of those young guys. Naturally not ideal given that they play in the same division, but am wondering if there are other teams like this out there that have NHL ready young dmen that a GM is willing to part with for the current reward.

The Ducks are a good trade partner as well. The flames coveted Ritchie at the 2014 draft apparently so I would think they would ask for him. Anaheim also has the money to pay him but they would have a lot of 30+ Players taking up huge cap space. I would want a guy like Fowler back who is young but could step in today. Not sure the Ducks do that. Fowler+Ritchie is a deal I would be okay with and Anaheim would be loaded for a cup run. Hate to trade Gio at all and in the division hurts even more

[bax]

Originally Posted by New Era

This may be exactly why the Franson to Calgary stuff is still hanging out there. Flames sign Franson then trade Giordano. They should recoup a couple substantial pieces in a trade like that. Hell, trade him to Buffalo for McCabe, Bailey and a pick, and profit.

This is ridiculous. First of all there is no Franson to Calgary stuff floating around. No insiders have reported this, just a random dude who took a creepy photo of him on a plane. Him flying into the area probably isn't even related to hockey.

Secondly, if we traded Gio for that package then we would be in big trouble. There is no profit from that.

[Benched]

double

[Benched]

More and more I'm hoping we don't sign Gio immediately and see what the new season holds. If he gets hurt again, or isn't up to last season's amazing performance we may get a discount that will keep him in town on a contract we can all live with.


If he's crushing it again and this makes Gio dig in his heels in contract negotiations....then you shop him. I'd hate to do it, but we can't get all nostalgic and pay a player for past performance. It's forward, ever forward, building.

[Erick Estrada]

Im still of the opinion the team should hold these talks until the end of next season. A lot of things can change as the Flames could struggle as could Gio. I see why Gio and his agent would like to discuss contract coming off a career season but that's poor leverage from the Flames point of view and since they have him under contract for the coming season I would rather roll the dice here and see how things play out as the stakes seem too high with the rumoured asking price/term from the Gio camp.

[Enoch Root]

Waiting until the end of next season makes no sense for the Flames. They would have absolutely no leverage, as Giordano would be free to walk.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Im still of the opinion the team should hold these talks until the end of next season. A lot of things can change as the Flames could struggle as could Gio. I see why Gio and his agent would like to discuss contract coming off a career season but that's poor leverage from the Flames point of view and since they have him under contract for the coming season I would rather roll the dice here and see how things play out as the stakes seem too high with the rumoured asking price/term from the Gio camp.

The thing with dragging it out until the off season is that it creates distractions all season long. Especially when it's your captain. By just putting it off you are losing valuable negotiation time as well. Better to just hash it out before the season starts in my opinion.

[Strange Brew]

New Era - thanks for taking the time to do this analysis. I agree with your points although I believe you can still fit Giordano in on a reasonable term, but you have to find savings elsewhere.

Your analysis does a nice job of highlighting some of the less favorable contracts on the team. Engelland and Wideman look to be our bottom pairing D this year and they are using up over $8M with another $3.5 (Smid) potentially in the press box. These are all useful players but in your analysis the bottom pairing D should be around $3.5 to $4M. Their contracts worked for the last two years due to so many low paid players on the team. However that is changing rapidly. Which really shows the danger in long term contracts and need to plan for the cap more than 1 or 2 years out.

Treliving will earn his money in the next 12 months making some tough decisions and hopefully moving some of our less favorable contracts. If Gio will agree to a reasonable term, I much prefer keeping him.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

It would be a real shame to trade Giordano.

But not as big of a shame as it would be to have a 36 year old playing out the tail end of his career as a 4th/5th defenceman, at a $9m cap hit with 4 more years left on his deal.

For a cap ceiling team trying to win the Stanley Cup, a $9m player that's anything short of a superstar is a real problem.