[News] Patrick Kane being investigated for rape. UPD: DA announces no charges

[N-E-B]

Can't say I'll be stunned if this is true. Kane doesn't exactly have the greatest reputation. That said, I refuse to judge him until he's proven guilty or hopefully innocent.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by zamler

Go to about 40:00.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9s5H-RNjxY

Three things:

1) Yes, 2% is probably too low. There is (afaik) no evidence that false rape accusations are any more or less common than false accusations of other crimes.

However.

2) False accusations of any crime are a lot less common than actual crimes. Especially if you only count cases which lead to investigations.

3) There is no other crime with which the chance of false accusation is considered an equally likely option in everyday conversation, or with which it's considered somehow a crucial issue which must always be brought up.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by justafan

You think she is "protesting" but the guy just goes ahead? In doing this, maybe a smack outside the head, pinning her down across her throat? Thats how you force someone to "have sex". Seems violent and powerful to me.

Maybe in some cases, or even many cases... but it doesn't have to be like that to be rape.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by zamler

Go to about 40:00.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9s5H-RNjxY

I think you may not know who that guy is, but he's (a) got his sources wrong and (b) is a well known "anarchocapitalist" contrarian and antifeminist and global warming skeptic. His wife is a psychologist who was severly disciplined by the College for the "defoo" practice she and her husband advocate. He once said: “If you don’t have a husband, if you chose the wrong guy, to keep the child is abusive, almost always.”

http://www.fdrliberated.com/the-day-...efan-molyneux/

http://freekeene.com/2014/08/29/stef...lence-critics/

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Itse

Three things:

1) Yes, 2% is probably too low. There is (afaik) no evidence that false rape accusations are any more or less common than false accusations of other crimes.

However.

2) False accusations of any crime are a lot less common than actual crimes. Especially if you only count cases which lead to investigations.

3) There is no other crime with which the chance of false accusation is considered an equally likely option in everyday conversation, or with which it's considered somehow a crucial issue which must always be brought up.

2% is the rough number for false accusations of other crimes as well.

Your #3 is exactly right.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think you may not know who that guy is, but he's (a) got his sources wrong and (b) is a well known "anarchocapitalist" contrarian and antifeminist and global warming skeptic. His wife is a psychologist who was severly disciplined by the College for the "defoo" practice she and her husband advocate. He once said: “If you don’t have a husband, if you chose the wrong guy, to keep the child is abusive, almost always.”

Don't like the message, attack the messenger. Also "antifeminist" doesn't mean anti woman.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

2% is the rough number for false accusations of other crimes as well.

Even if true (the actual number has been shown over and over to be much higher) the stigma of being accused of rape is worse than just about any other accusation.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by zamler

Don't like the message, attack the messenger. Also "antifeminist" doesn't mean anti woman.

Even if true (the actual number has been shown over and over to be much higher) the stigma of being accused of rape is worse than just about any other accusation.

So his credibility is off-limits?

[EldrickOnIce]

nm

[Jables16]

Originally Posted by DJones

You've never had sex with a girl that may be black out? I've been on the otherside of that problem a few times.

Not proud of it and it's embarrassing to not remember but to assert that anything criminal happened is preposterous. Nowadays if a girl regrets it the day after even though she made a conscious choice or texted her friend "I'm hooking up with Patrick Kane!!" it can still be considered rape.

You don't think there's any grey in that?

Just to clarify, my definition of "blackout drunk" means that you have become unconscious from being drunk, as in "blacking out". I am really hoping you are not using the same definition and think that having sex with an unconscious woman is not rape because that would make you a horrible person.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by East Coast Flame

A+ thread everyone, great job

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Itse

Sheesh. You really should read more on the topic.

That's not to say that there are no golddigggers. Obviously she also has more to gain here. But let's face it: rich people can pretty much always pay their way out of trouble, while people who accuse popular people of crimes almost always get a lot of s**t.

You think Kane would risk his entire career and reputation because he figured he could pay his way out of this problem?

I think we just need to take a wait and see approach. I fully admit when I hear a situation like this I think it's someone trying to get a payday. The evidence could prove that right or wrong. Realstically I should just take a wait and see approach. We shouldn't be giving either side the benefit of the doubt.

This assumption that the rich think they can get away with anything and the accusers are such victims is just the opposite side of the same coin though. Jumping to conclusions before we know the true story.

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by zamler

Go to about 40:00.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9s5H-RNjxY

I can't believe you listened to 40 minutes of this guys ramblings to prove your point. I lasted exactly 14 seconds.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Jables16

Just to clarify, my definition of "blackout drunk" means that you have become unconscious from being drunk, as in "blacking out". I am really hoping you are not using the same definition and think that having sex with an unconscious woman is not rape because that would make you a horrible person.

They obviously mean blacking out as in being so drunk that they lose their short term memory. They even mentioned that. It happens to lots of people. That's actually the only definition I thought people used.

I would call your definition of blacking out "passing out"

[Azure]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

It's all about money. Rich athletes are easy targets. Even if found innocent criminally , a civil lawsuit always follows.

nm

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by bax

They obviously means blacking out as in being so drunk that you lose your short term memory. They even mentioned that. It happens to lots of people. That's actually the only definition I thought people used.

I would call your definition of blacking out "passing out"

This. Being blackout drunk relates to not being able to remember everything the next day. It pertains to memory, not consciousness.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by Hackey

You think Kane would risk his entire career and reputation because he figured he could pay his way out of this problem?

I think we just need to take a wait and see approach. I fully admit when I hear a situation like this I think it's someone trying to get a payday. The evidence could prove that right or wrong. Realstically I should just take a wait and see approach. We shouldn't be giving either side the benefit of the doubt.

This assumption that the rich think they can get away with anything and the accusers are such victims is just the opposite side of the same coin though. Jumping to conclusions before we know the true story.

That's terrible. When you hear about reasons why victims of sexual assault refuse to report it, it's because of attitudes like this. Go ahead and think things like this if you must, but please do everyone a favor and keep it to yourself.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

This. Being blackout drunk relates to not being able to remember everything the next day. It pertains to memory, not consciousness.

The problem, it seems to me, is that you've engaged in sexual activity while extremely drunk with someone who is also extremely drunk, and can't remember what happened the next morning, then how do you know that the other person consented to said sexual activity?

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Makarov

The problem, it seems to me, is that you've engaged in sexual activity while extremely drunk with someone who is also extremely drunk, and can't remember what happened the next morning, then how do you know that the other person consented to said sexual activity?

Wouldn't it be equally likely that that other person does something to me that i did not consent? being that we both are extremely drunk and struggling to remember details.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Wouldn't it be equally likely that that other person does something to me that i did not consent? being that we both are extremely drunk and struggling to remember details.

If you mean that it is extremely risky behaviour on both person's parts, I absolutely agree.

[d_phaneuf]

Kane can be assumed innocent until proven guilty

The accuser can be assumed to be telling the truth until proven false

believing one of those doesn't stop you from believing the other, if you assume one isn't true with the amount of evidence currently out there your bias is showing