Federal Election Called for Oct 19, 2015

[White Out 403]

Donations made to parties for attack ads are subsidized in part by the government in the form of tax refund cro

Cmon man. I donate every month to the NDP and will get back 75% of it.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Donations made to parties for attack ads are subsidized in part by the government in the form of tax refund cro

Cmon man. I donate every month to the NDP and will get back 75% of it.

Yes, and I hate attack ads no matter who is paying for them, or who is airing them. Everything is subsidized in one form or another which I don't necessarily agree with.

I just think that there is an attitude among some folks that since CPC is in power, their attack ads are paid for by taxpayers directly, whereas the opposition has to raise money to air ads. I believe most folks on CP though understand the difference.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The rules are the same for everyone. What Elizabeth May is complaining about is that there are caps on spending that her party, given its more limited resources, cannot hope to come close to, whereas the other three have progressively larger war chests. So even though everyone is playing by the same rules in terms of campaign advertising, it's certainly not a level playing field.

[GirlySports]

can we have a poll? who will win the election?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by John Doe

He has the power in a majority to do pretty well whatever he wants, but he gets the "dictator" title from his strict control of his MP's, from cutting off debate on a multitude of bills, from refusing to submit to parliament documents (contempt of parliament issue), from appointing senators strictly on the basis of how well they will do his bidding, etc..

Let's not forget his omnibus budget bills.

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I really hope people out there don't just vote ideologically. I think that's very wrong. I was pleased when the NDP shockingly became the official opposition because Jack Layton killed it at the debate, instead of teaming up with the Libs to attack the Cons like everyone thought he would. He swung people's votes based on the issues and his plan, and this pleased me that people used their brains when voting.


I hope people think critically of the issues. I hear all sorts of rhetoric like "Harper is a dictator. Vote him out". Yes, but no. He's a PM and he didn't dictate anything. He's got a majority and majorities can get a lot of their platform through compared to a minority.

CroFlames (and other CPC supporters feel free to chime in), thoughts on the economy aside, I'm curious how or why CPC supporters excuse the 'improprieties' (electoral, senatorial), large and small, that have dogged the Harper government since the last election. The best possible spin you can put on his Senate appointees is that he completely misjudged their character. That's not anything to brag about.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by John Doe

So, Harper says that he started the campaign now in order to save taxpayer's money.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/08...?utm_hp_ref=tw

I don't know what is worse, the blatant lie or that he thinks Canadians are stupid enough to believe it.

I was surprised that Harper would say that, then I read the article and see that he didn't say that. Please show me the quote where Harper says he "started the campaign now in order to save taxpayer's money".

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I think when you read a post phrased in that way, you can immediately assume it's disingenuous.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Oh yeah, it's going to get waaaaay worse. Heh. Over/under on bans that happen because of this thread? I'll set it at 1.5.

Will take over

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by John Doe

Canadians are not ashamed of our military. They are ashamed of the government's disruptive actions on climate control internationally, their unconditional support of Israel, etc..

I love broad sweeping generalizations, particularly when they are this dumb.

You are speaking on behalf of which Canadians?

If you are ashamed to be Canadian, I'll stop by with the truck to load up your things so you can GTFO.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I love broad sweeping generalizations, particularly when they are this dumb.

You are speaking on behalf of which Canadians?

If you are ashamed to be Canadian, I'll stop by with the truck to load up your things so you can GTFO.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Man, I was with you up until the "like it or leave" thing... he's allowed to be ashamed by government policies, even though it's sort of a laughable melodramatic thing to say.... dude sounds like he things he's running for something himself. But he doesn't have to leave. If you're ashamed of the way your country is doing things it at least implies that you give a damn.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I was surprised that Harper would say that, then I read the article and see that he didn't say that. Please show me the quote where Harper says he "started the campaign now in order to save taxpayer's money".

I don't see those exact words anywhere, but clearly that's what he's implying:

“As it my intention to begin campaign-related activities and it is also the case for the other party leaders, it’s important that these campaigns be funded by the parties themselves, rather than taxpayers,” the Conservative leader said.

Harper told reporters that with a fixed election date in place, his rivals were already campaigning. He suggested it would not be right of him, as prime minister, to use government resources to compete.

“I feel very strongly that if we’re going to begin our campaigns, if we’re going to run our campaigns, those campaigns need to be conducted under the rules of the law, that the money come from the parties themselves not government resources, parliamentary resources or taxpayer resources,” he said.

The call, he added, was about making sure all parties are “operating within the rules and not using taxpayers’ money directly.”

I did just notice the weasel word directly in the last sentence. He has no problem using taxpayers' money, lots of it, indirectly.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Man, I was with you up until the "like it or leave" thing... he's allowed to be ashamed by government policies, even though it's sort of a laughable melodramatic thing to say.... dude sounds like he things he's running for something himself. But he doesn't have to leave. If you're ashamed of the way your country is doing things it at least implies that you give a damn.

Yeah - the edit was to add the last part, for the same sort of over dramatic effect as that poster.
It may have been excessive

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I love broad sweeping generalizations, particularly when they are this dumb.

You are speaking on behalf of which Canadians?

If you are ashamed to be Canadian, I'll stop by with the truck to load up your things so you can GTFO.

He never said he was ashamed to be Canadian. He merely stated several things which he, and many other Canadians are ashamed of which have happened recently. It doesn't mean he doesn't like his country. If your worried about broad sweeping generalizations, you gotta watch your own.

His only mistake was that his grammar suggested all Canadians were, which obviously they are not. But many many are. And the backlash against the current government is proof of that.

Speaking of which, the NDP just opened up a double digit lead on the Conservatives in the popular vote.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...test-poll.html

EDIT: I see you've replied wile I was writing. Didn't mean to pile on.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Yeah - the edit was to add the last part, for the same sort of over dramatic effect as that poster.
It may have been excessive

I expect a great deal of the same sort of silliness in here; just don't fall into the trap. People who think that's the way you're supposed to talk about politics end up looking a lot more ridiculous in contrast when others aren't engaging in the same nonsense.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I was surprised that Harper would say that, then I read the article and see that he didn't say that. Please show me the quote where Harper says he "started the campaign now in order to save taxpayer's money".

What can I say, you got me there. Nowhere does he say what you have in quotations (notice, however, I didn't use quotation marks when I wrote my post).

What he did say is this:

“As it my intention to begin campaign-related activities and it is also the case for the other party leaders, it’s important that these campaigns be funded by the parties themselves, rather than taxpayers,” the Conservative leader said.


Harper told reporters that with a fixed election date in place, his rivals were already campaigning. He suggested it would not be right of him, as prime minister, to use government resources to compete.

“I feel very strongly that if we’re going to begin our campaigns, if we’re going to run our campaigns, those campaigns need to be conducted under the rules of the law, that the money come from the parties themselves not government resources, parliamentary resources or taxpayer resources,” he said.
The call, he added, was about making sure all parties are “operating within the rules and not using taxpayers’ money directly.”

I took this to mean (as it also appeared to mean to the person who wrote the article) that he was saying that he was saving the taxpayers money by not using government resources, meanwhile neglecting to mention that is precisely what he has been doing for a number of years and also neglecting to mention that half of every dollar spent by the parties is refunded back to the parties through rebates after the election. He also failed to mention that his government recently changed the law so that they would also be able to spend about twice as much this election and half of this new spending would have to be paid by the tax payers.

Please note that what I wrote above is my interpretation of what he said and not his exact words. That is why I didn't use quotation marks to signify that those were his words.

Edit: beaten to the punch by edslunch

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Yeah - the edit was to add the last part, for the same sort of over dramatic effect as that poster.
It may have been excessive

Funny, that was the same thing that I was doing when I was responding to CroFlames. I didn't mean that all Canadians were embarrassed (nor did you notice that I didn't even say that I was embarrassed), much the same way that when Harper tells us what Canadians want he is not speaking for every Canadian.

As for leaving Canada, if you were born after 1969 then you get out since I was here first!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by John Doe

I took this to mean (as it also appeared to mean to the person who wrote the article) that he was saying that he was saving the taxpayers money by not using government resources

I took it to mean that he at least claims to want all parties conducting campaign activities to be subject to campaign related laws, including those relating to the source of funds going into advertising. There's no implication that this was going to be cheaper for taxpayers on the whole. Of course, that's sort of disingenuous given that he also clearly wants to exploit an inherent advantage in the way those laws are set up for parties with larger campaign war chests.

Originally Posted by John Doe

Funny, that was the same thing that I was doing when I was responding to CroFlames. I didn't mean that all Canadians were embarrassed (nor did you notice that I didn't even say that I was embarrassed), much the same way that when Harper tells us what Canadians want he is not speaking for every Canadian.

He is trying to speak for every Canadian and it's the over the top sort of conscriptive emotional language that politicians use during campaigns. It's annoying, but it's aimed at getting people to vote for him, because it actually works. You, conversely, are not running for anything, and don't need to make those same sorts of noises. If you (and everyone) just frankly and honestly discuss your issues with the CPC's platform and record this would be a much more useful thread.

I am not operating under the illusion that some people have any desire to do that, as it's obvious based on the other federal politics thread that some are just there to massage the truth to fit their preferred team's narrative. But to the extent that sort of behavior can be curtailed, we'll have a better discussion.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I took it to mean that he at least claims to want all parties conducting campaign activities to be subject to campaign related laws, including those relating to the source of funds going into advertising. There's no implication that this was going to be cheaper for taxpayers on the whole. Of course, that's sort of disingenuous given that he also clearly wants to exploit an inherent advantage in the way those laws are set up for parties with larger campaign war chests.

See post by edslunch above

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

He is trying to speak for every Canadian and it's the over the top sort of conscriptive emotional language that politicians use during campaigns. It's annoying, but it's aimed at getting people to vote for him, because it actually works. You, conversely, are not running for anything, and don't need to make those same sorts of noises. If you (and everyone) just frankly and honestly discuss your issues with the CPC's platform and record this would be a much more useful thread.

I am not operating under the illusion that some people have any desire to do that, as it's obvious based on the other federal politics thread that some are just there to massage the truth to fit their preferred team's narrative. But to the extent that sort of behavior can be curtailed, we'll have a better discussion.

Harper uses that language all the time, not just during elections. That said, your point is fair and I will do my best to comply.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I don't see those exact words anywhere, but clearly that's what he's implying:

Originally Posted by John Doe

What can I say, you got me there. Nowhere does he say what you have in quotations (notice, however, I didn't use quotation marks when I wrote my post).

The headline says "Federal Election 2015: Costly Campaign All About Saving Taxpayers' Money, Harper Says" and John Doe presented it as a quote from Harper. You can decide how you want to interpret his words but he did not say that. Let's stick to the facts please, there will be enough made up rhetoric this campaign.