[Rumour] Giordano Extension. Kypreos: Starting point is $72 million over 8 years

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If Giordano plays like he did last season and is healthy, he wins the Norris.

If Giordano goes to free agency, he's signing for 9-10MM / season. No question. Also he's 31, not 65.

I think you underestimate the power of Eastern bias. If he stays healthy and scores as much as Karlsson/Letang/Subban, they give it to one of those guys.

Secondly he will be 33 when this new contract kicks in. That's the real problem. We're signing him to a contract when he's 31 years of age that he won't play for until he's 33.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

But if I'm Giordano, I'm sticking to asking for 8-9MM / season, as that is honestly what I think his market value is if you look at Subban or Weber or others, and yes, Giordano is in that ballpark.

Subban is signed from age 25 - 32 years old.
Weber is signed from age 27 - 37 + 3 BS 1M years tacked on at the end.
Gio will start at age 33, not comparable IMO.

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Some of you are hoping 7MM for a Norris caliber defencemen? A bit delusional if you ask me, this guy is always so underrated, and his intangibles are what turned this team around when it needed it the most.

I'd give Hartley a good chunk of that credit.

[Dr. Doom]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

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Something like that could work for both sides? 7m AAV.. Dunno if he wants to stretch term to 6yrs for his 42m though; or if the flames are looking for that kind of term. How old is he after this year again?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The real problem is the term...

Name a player at 30+ that has gotten a deal where it's taken him into his later 30s where it's worked out.

OK loaded question this is rather new...

But Chara is the most recent onset and see how that's worked out... cap hell for Boston in what should be the prime years for them.

The deal needs to start well lower and finish much lower if the term is extended. And the Flames know this.

I agree they know they have the leverage.
But do they know how to deal him if the times comes?

That's fine if folks want to say hey let's make it a problem only if it becomes one in September... but the whole point of this thread is to discuss the variety of outcomes the situation could lead to. And if we question Kypreos in this that's fine too but at the end of the day I haven't heard any rebuttle to suggest it isn't true either.

Kinda interesting twist to our otherwise fairytale "rebuild."

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

The real problem is the term...

Name a player at 30+ that has gotten a deal where it's taken him into his later 30s where it's worked out.

OK loaded question this is rather new...

But Chara is the most recent onset and see how that's worked out... cap hell for Boston in what should be the prime years for them.

The deal needs to start well lower and finish much lower if the term is extended. And the Flames know this.

I agree they know they have the leverage.
But do they know how to deal him if the times comes?

That's fine if folks want to say hey let's make it a problem only if it becomes one in September... but the whole point of this thread is to discuss the variety of outcomes the situation could lead to. And if we question Kypreos in this that's fine too but at the end of the day I haven't heard any rebuttle to suggest it isn't true either.

Kinda interesting twist to our otherwise fairytale "rebuild."

I would suggest there really isn't anyone to rebut it.

Winter cant....as ifit's true it would hurt his positioning.

Treliving wont.... because the Flames have made it abundantly clear that they do their business behind closed doors and without any leaks from their side of things.

That leaves Giordano himself....and I would never expect him to comment publically about anything to do with this. Its really not his job either other than to say that he wants to be in Calgary, loves the city etc etc.

This thing will get done one way or the other and in due time.

The talk about how Gio "doesn't fit in" though? Assinine.

[Strange Brew]

Treliving's quote about taking emotion out of contract and trade negotiations is still resonating with me.

Arguably our two players who had the biggest impact last year (Gio and Hudler) become UFA's at the end of the year. Both had very team friendly cap hits relative to their 2015 performance. Big raises to the both of them, coupled with raises to Gaudreau and Monahan put us in a very different cap situation in 2016/17. To the extent that you could not add any meaningful pieces to the team. So do you think the team as currently constructed will grow into a championship contender?

My money says no. Treliving will look to deal one of these two players between now and the deadline for significant assets for the near future. It is no coincidence that our two significant off season acquisitions could be construed as younger replacements for these two players.

Team friendly contract extensions for both of them would be ideal. Or a meaningfully higher salary cap. It will be interesting.

[Fire in the disco]

Highest term and money I would be happy with is a 6x6, if the dollars are higher the term will need to be lower to continue to build for the future

[FireItUp]

Found this on Instagram, (Don't know if it's been posted) it's just a couple short vids of Gio (& Jooris) training, some pretty cool workouts for hockey.
http://instagram.com/jkeatz33

[AC]

Originally Posted by FireItUp

Found this on Instagram, (Don't know if it's been posted) it's just a couple short vids of Gio (& Jooris) training, some pretty cool workouts for hockey.
http://instagram.com/jkeatz33

Those are awesome! The 4th video is such a relief seeing Gio not hampered by his arm at all.

[Dajazz]

Getting Hamilton and Frolik leads me to believe Treliving is well prepared for what might happen.

[Red Menace]

Gio's performance on ice when healthy over the last 2 years warrants the 9 mill cap hit....but he has been hurt for about 20% of the games and is over 30...I think the offer to him has to reflect that, he cannot expect to get full value and the Flames should not give it to him....5 yrs x 7 mill is about as high and as long as I'd be willing to go, and even that could be a killer in a few years....

[Vinny01]

Tough spot for Gio/Flames. This is Gio's chance to cash in huge and could command a $50+M deal. The Flames have quickly put together a core of young players that could very well be a consistent Stanley Cup contender in a couple years. The Flames top priority must be keeping Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Hamilton, and Brodie. Those are the 5 players that are the keys to the future.

I hope the Flames and Gio can reach a common ground on a deal that keeps Mark in Calgary for the long term but doesn't cost the team $7+M for over 5 years. If Gio wants the big cap hit the Flames can't go more than 3 years. If Gio wants big term he needs to be in the 6's for sure or preferably lower

[FireItUp]

I'm pretty sure Hudler wants Gio to sign!.
https://instagram.com/p/5B4pJAyoIe/

[Hugh Jahrmes]

I can't see Gio taking any deal with a sub-6.0 AAV, and to me it borders on disrespectful to expect him to.
The more i think about it, the more I can see him getting his 8 year retirement contract. Likely shakes down to 3 choices, in order of likelihood imo
1) 7-8 year deal in the 6.75AAV range. IIRC the first year of Brodie's contract this season has a nod to Gio's status in the form of a 3.9M'ish salary. I can see Gio's contract being in the 10M range for the first 2 seasons then tailing off quickly. This would also have Hamilton's salary surpass him around the time his play likely does as well.
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Arguably here (despite what many people here think.. I swear he becomes older and crappier every day), this contract probably undervalues Gio in years 4-6.. That's the sacrifice he makes to ensure BT is able to build a bulletproof lineup around him, imo. This also hopefully imposes a "Lidstrom" cap on the team for the majority of the contract; I just can't see Monahan or Gaudreau pushing for a larger cap hit than the captain. Front load their contracts and hire them financial advisors.. They'll be fine.

2) if he really is that concerned with being "back paid", he takes a 2x12m or similar contract, and hopes like hell his play or body don't deteriorate before a reasonable retirement extension kicks in.

3) we trade him for McDavid, Nurse and 3x2nd round picks, or some other stellar package, like Horvat+2x1st from Vancouver. This likely happens only if the delta between what both sides feel is more than fair is too great, and the relationship between the player and team suffers as a result.
70%/28%/2% imo
I also must sleep soon



Edit- with that pic of hudler, I'm wondering what it takes to keep him around for 2-3 years? He likely also wants to cash in long term and settle down here, but I can't see how we come anywhere close to what half of the league likely offers him if he hits the open market

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I think the Flames have been pretty consistent about not wanting long term contracts. Huge difference in signing a guy in his mid-twenties and a guy that will be 33 when the extention kicks in. Hamilton apparently pushed for 8 years and they landed on 6. I think the Flames would want push for 3-4 and settle on 5 years. Hopefully around $7.5AAV.
Too bad there hasn't been more news since the "news" that Kypreos broke. Likely won't hear anything until the RFA's are signed up.

[Street Pharmacist]

If he's undervalued in years 4-6 at 37-39 years old, I'll be amazed.

He's not getting a contract that takes him past his 40th birthday

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I think the Flames have been pretty consistent about not wanting long term contracts. Huge difference in signing a guy in his mid-twenties and a guy that will be 33 when the extention kicks in. Hamilton apparently pushed for 8 years and they landed on 6. I think the Flames would want push for 3-4 and settle on 5 years. Hopefully around $7.5AAV.
Too bad there hasn't been more news since the "news" that Kypreos broke. Likely won't hear anything until the RFA's are signed up.

Hamilton pushed for five years and we wanted 7.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Given where the cap was 5ish years ago, is it unreasonable to project an 80M cap by that time?
A 5M salary (was not referring to his cap hit) puts him at 6.25% of the team's payroll at the time and something tells me he will be providing far more value to the club than his wage would reflect.
JMO though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

I can't see Gio taking any deal with a sub-6.0 AAV, and to me it borders on disrespectful to expect him to.
The more i think about it, the more I can see him getting his 8 year retirement contract. Likely shakes down to 3 choices, in order of likelihood imo
1) 7-8 year deal in the 6.75AAV range. IIRC the first year of Brodie's contract this season has a nod to Gio's status in the form of a 3.9M'ish salary. I can see Gio's contract being in the 10M range for the first 2 seasons then tailing off quickly. This would also have Hamilton's salary surpass him around the time his play likely does as well.
10
10
8
6
5
5
5
5

Arguably here (despite what many people here think.. I swear he becomes older and crappier every day), this contract probably undervalues Gio in years 4-6.. That's the sacrifice he makes to ensure BT is able to build a bulletproof lineup around him, imo. This also hopefully imposes a "Lidstrom" cap on the team for the majority of the contract; I just can't see Monahan or Gaudreau pushing for a larger cap hit than the captain. Front load their contracts and hire them financial advisors.. They'll be fine.

2) if he really is that concerned with being "back paid", he takes a 2x12m or similar contract, and hopes like hell his play or body don't deteriorate before a reasonable retirement extension kicks in.

3) we trade him for McDavid, Nurse and 3x2nd round picks, or some other stellar package, like Horvat+2x1st from Vancouver. This likely happens only if the delta between what both sides feel is more than fair is too great, and the relationship between the player and team suffers as a result.
70%/28%/2% imo
I also must sleep soon



Edit- with that pic of hudler, I'm wondering what it takes to keep him around for 2-3 years? He likely also wants to cash in long term and settle down here, but I can't see how we come anywhere close to what half of the league likely offers him if he hits the open market

You want to have a 41 year old to have a 6.75 million cap hit?

Crazy

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Everyone is freaking out using Chara as an example. This would be 9 years from now guys.

What was the cap 9 years ago?
Let's project 84M for the final year which to me is conservative..
What was 8% of the cap 9 years ago?

Edit: Maybe "going with the gut" here would end in a train wreck, but I just don't see Gio as someone who has the type of mileage on him that Chara currently does. IMO he has a lot of gas left in the tank, and the way were fleshing the roster out around him should allow him to, you know, not have to carry the team the way he did for the majority of this season.



End of the day though, say we take 3 years off of that deal. Players aren't stupid; he's looking at total dollars to set his family and future generations up to never have to "need" anything. Assuming he was willing to take a reduced offer - 39M over 5 years, now his cap hit balloons to 7.8 which, again JMO, puts a mark up for other guys to compare their contracts to relative to their impact in a few years.

In 7,8,9 years, 6.75M is nowhere near elite money and if anyone wants to debate that I'd love to hear your reasoning.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Yoho

This is a very unusual situation and there is no absolutes.

Agreed. How many players have career years at 32, one year before becoming UFAs? There is little precedent for what Gio's camp is allegedly asking for, and it's coming up at a time when cap management is tighter than ever, and younger stars (of whom the Flames have several) are getting paid more than ever.