Federal Politics 2015 Thread

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Weitz

"I mean they won't run the economy well, but they won't kitten-strangle nazis"

See what I did there?

Made my point?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Made my point?

The point you made was the same as what you were complaining about.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Seriously, is this the Conservative trump card for everything? You do know that the economy is not the only important aspect of governing, especially when you're driving the country backwards socially and environmentally at a mind-boggling rate, right? It's especially ridiculous when you consider the fact that the Conservatives under Harper have been middling to poor when it comes to the economy anyways.

I'm much more concerned with the fact that our current government has no problem wasting billions of dollars on failed crime and drug policies, or implementing incredibly worrying surveillance and security protocols, than I am with a guy not knowing the corporate tax rate off the top of his head. One of those things is a lot easier to fix.

EDIT: That came off more dickish and abrasive than it was intended. My point was, I just don't get logic that says "I mean they're kitten-strangling Nazis, but my god they manage the economy well."

Its not everything for sure, but frankly I think that the CPC have been terrible stewards of the economy. They like to tell everyone what a great job they've done, but all I see is lazy tax policy, vote buying ads during the hockey games, money squandered on pet projects and corporate welfare. They've done almost nothing that gives me confidence economically.

Problem is that according to the polls their biggest challenger is the NDP, who I fully expect to be an economic disaster. Frankly when a guy who has been the leader of the opposition doesn't know that the tax rate is, but plans to increase it, it gives me no confidence whatsoever that they have a clue about what their doing. Its cute to say you're the "government-in-waiting" and all that, but how about instead of these trite little phrases they actually figure out some kind of plan to win my vote?

Originally Posted by Weitz

"I mean they won't run the economy well, but they won't kitten-strangle nazis"

See what I did there?

Thanked because that was hilarious!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't know if this peaking too early or more the anti-Harper tide swelling. If the NDP represent the best chance to take out Harper, and it's not close between them and the Liberals, I think you can say goodbye to any vote-splitting on the left.

I love how the Liberals are "centrist" right up until they don't succeed somehwere, then the problem is "vote splitting on the left".

[nik-]

I don't think the Liberals know what they are at this point.

[crazy_eoj]

NDP:

We don't know what the tax rate is, but it definitely needs to be higher! Vote for us!

[Senator Clay Davis]

CPC:

Isn't our Economic Action Plan great? I mean we were totally against it and were forced to do it by the other parties, but that doesn't mean we can't take all the credit and waste a ton of money telling you about it! Vote for us!

This is just another election of no good choices.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I love how the Liberals are "centrist" right up until they don't succeed somehwere, then the problem is "vote splitting on the left".

"Alienating half of our base" should be what they call it this year.

[Slava]

I think that you guys are putting too much into bill C51 really. I consider myself pretty informed and I generally stay on top of the issues and really I barely even know what it is. I would bet that if you asked 100 people like 10 could even tell you what the bill is and of those 10 maybe 3-4 would have a position on it.

[nik-]

No one ever claimed the electorate was educated on issues, but if it's framed against the NSA stuff south of the border, people will get it. The NDP should already be running ads educating and separating on C-51 targeted at Liberal voters.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by nik-

No one ever claimed the electorate was educated on issues, but if it's framed against the NSA stuff south of the border, people will get it. The NDP should already be running ads educating and separating on C-51 targeted at Liberal voters.

True enough, but didn't Mulcair also flip-flop on C51? I thought that he came out in favour and then flipped when he saw political opportunity there? I could be wrong, but a guy I talked to a few weeks ago was telling me something along those lines.

Regardless though, an uninformed electorate doesn't cause the drop we're seeing with Trudeau. I just think that the honeymoon is over and the Liberals haven't found anything to galvanize that support they showed a year ago.

[nik-]

A lot of that is the Liberal party no longer really offering any alternative (which he helped facilitate) and that Trudeau is just kind of "there". There's no real strong stance or policy, it's just "Not Harper" and "Remember my dad?". He hasn't defined himself in any way so why would people vote for him? If they want to go Left they'll go NDP and go real left.

Mulcair I'm not a fan of, but I dislike him a lot less than Jack Layton who I basically felt was a guy that just could say whatever he wanted and knew he'd never be accountable for it. He basically was the beneficiary of a protest vote against the Bloc, then died and became a Saint super politician posthumously. Mulcair had to come in with a legitimate role as opposition (in name at least).

Basically this is a brutal election. I don't want to vote for any of them.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that you guys are putting too much into bill C51 really. I consider myself pretty informed and I generally stay on top of the issues and really I barely even know what it is. I would bet that if you asked 100 people like 10 could even tell you what the bill is and of those 10 maybe 3-4 would have a position on it.

The ambiguity of it, and the resulting cost to taxpayers in Charter challenges was enough to chap my ass, not to mention increasing the oversight of ministers and government officials as opposed to the judiciary.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by nik-

A lot of that is the Liberal party no longer really offering any alternative (which he helped facilitate) and that Trudeau is just kind of "there". There's no real strong stance or policy, it's just "Not Harper" and "Remember my dad?". He hasn't defined himself in any way so why would people vote for him? If they want to go Left they'll go NDP and go real left.

Mulcair I'm not a fan of, but I dislike him a lot less than Jack Layton who I basically felt was a guy that just could say whatever he wanted and knew he'd never be accountable for it. He basically was the beneficiary of a protest vote against the Bloc, then died and became a Saint super politician posthumously. Mulcair had to come in with a legitimate role as opposition (in name at least).

Basically this is a brutal election. I don't want to vote for any of them.

Nobody should be surprised about Trudeau. Liberal insiders tagged him because he was a pretty boy with a famous last name and a largely empty head. He hasn't proven them wrong, but that was always going to have a short shelf life with the public.

Mulcair is really still living on Layton's legacy, and hard as he tries to look the part of government in waiting, I think it is still hard to get a view on what he actually does stand for at times. Indeed, within the context of C-51 itself, his opposition has been viewed as less a principled stand, and more waiting to see how the winds blow and taking advantage. (ex Toronto Star, rabble.ca).

Of course, despite being little more than a guy with an over manicured beard in a nice suit still living off Layton's ghost, Mulcair and his band of crazies are currently poised to reap a huge reward due a combination of Harper hate, Trudeau's ineffectual incompetence and vote splitting on the right (because what's good for the goose is good for the gander ).

Canada seems ready to completely F itself over for the very same reason Alberta voted the way it did: Enough people are willing to believe the NDP are the least awful option.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The ambiguity of it, and the resulting cost to taxpayers in Charter challenges was enough to chap my ass, not to mention increasing the oversight of ministers and government officials as opposed to the judiciary.

It's a reckless use of the Canadian purse strings to attack laws upheld by the highest court in the land.

It's anti-democratic behaviour and wasteful spending.

It should be something those who desire less government involvement in their lives find deplorable.

I have yet to see this occur, however.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Canada seems ready to completely F itself over for the very same reason Alberta voted the way it did: Enough people are willing to believe the NDP are the least awful option.

I think if you want to be mad at anyone for Fing over Canada, be mad at Harper and the Conservatives. They could have eased off the social conservative agenda, pretended to at least give half a crap about First Nations people, actually given half a crap about veterans, the environment, properly vetted their Senate appointments, not engaged in various affronts to democracy and discourse, etc., etc.

We obviously aren't even close to election day, but the Conservatives have no one to blame but themselves for alienating a large chunk of the population.

[Resolute 14]

I don't disagree, rube, but that doesn't change the point that the NDP aren't a good option themselves.

[Tinordi]

So here we are, after a decade of Harper Conservatism, a grouchy people, increasingly alienated from our democratic foundations, subjected to populist, unintelligent policy-making, and increasingly unappreciated in the world.

Peter Russell on the Harper Decade: http://www.theharperdecade.com/blog/.../peter-russell

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I don't disagree, rube, but that doesn't change the point that the NDP aren't a good option themselves.

Why?

Because boogeyman?

Because Mulcair isn't fluent in the minutiae of the tax system?

Harper is proven awful, Trudeau is lost and hopeless. What has Mulcair done to prove he's not ready to lead this country?

Personally, I've had more than enough of Harper and the CPC's BS. I don't even feel the need to list examples anymore. Go through the thread if you're so clueless you can't come up with a dozen examples of Harper and his party's ridiculous BS actions and policies.

Mulcair seems like a good, smart, educated and principled man. This is a guy who was courted by the Liberals but chose to run for the NDP, who had only won one seat ever in Quebec. Power hungry? Opportunistic? Not at all. He ran for a party that had never won a singing contest in Quebec and now has a chance to be the next Prime Minister on the backs of those same Quebec voters.

I'd say he and the party deserve a chance.

[Tinordi]

Resolute's ideological coding is impervious to any actual discussion or logic. Don't even bother. He's so maligned that he thinks that any disagreement is proof of your own ideological polarization not his.