[News] UPD: City of Glendale to vote on new arena agreement with Coyotes

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by New Era

A deal with the Salt River Nation is a complete unknown. We are talking about a sovereign nation where law is enforced differently. How this would play out is an unknown. I would think this would greatly affect how the facility is run and more importantly the insurance that is required for all events. Safety services would be greatly impacted. I doubt the Salt River Nation could meet some of these requirements and they would not be open to allowing outside interests to participate in this function as it would affect their perceived autonomy or sovereignty.



Phoenix is big,and that map doesn't do it justice. As well, many features that make the metro area difficult to traverse are not shown. Once you start adding the mountains that break up the various municipalities you get a better idea of why getting around can be difficult. To give you some scale, Metro Calgary is 5,107 square kilometers in size. Metro Phoenix is 37,725 kilometers in size. If you drive from the far southeast reaches of the city to the far northwest reaches it can take almost two hours to make the trip. Add in that you have 3.25 million people in the city and it becomes a challenge to get around, even with 10 lane highways in spots.

And it's plus 40 degrees Celsius, so your car better have AC during that 2 hour drive. I've made that drive many a time. Not pleasant during rush hours.

[GioforPM]

Metro Calgary is 5,107 square kilometers in size.

The numbers usually given for Metro Calgary are a bit misleading because that's the size of the CMA. Unfortunately, there are some big areas which you'd consider to be metro Calgary (the whole counties of Rockyview and Foothills which includes Springbank and all the other areas around of Calgary for example) who are not members of the CMA. In other words, while Cochrane is counted, all of the land between Calgary and Cochrane is excluded in the number.

I believe though that even with all that land included Phoenix would be bigger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_Region

It does include Tsu T'ina though and I'm not sure if the Phoenix number includes Indian reservations

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by troutman

So it is west, I was wrong. But the arena is definitely two miles north of Phoenix as you can see on the map. That's what I remember is driving two miles south and suddenly being in Phoenix. I was surprised it was that close to the city.

For a new arena I still think somewhere more central, even downtown Scottsdale, would be much better than Talking Stick Resort (which would be close to that "Fountain Hills" area on the map).

[getbak]

When the Talking Stick Resort was mentioned earlier, I believe it was in reference to the new name for the US Airways Center (i.e. where the Suns play), not an arena actually at the Talking Stick Resort.

[sureLoss]

Is Barroway a flake?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...izona-coyotes/

I warned my readers in November not to place too much confidence in the $305 million price being assigned to Andrew Barroway’s pending purchase of the Arizona Coyotes. Following team transactions for decades has made me skeptical of deals that are expected to take months, or years, for the acquirer to make full payment.

Now there are reports coming that Barroway that “a philosophical difference in the financial direction of the team has led IceArizona members Gary Drummond and Dave Duckett to buy back some of Barroway’s shares. The process has been in the works since the end of last season and should be completed soon, perhaps as soon as this week.”

You know what I say about a “philosophical difference” being the reason for the share buy back? I say it has diddly squat to do with it.

From what I am hearing, Barroway has come up with less than half the $151 million he needs to finish the deal. Maybe can get the money but he is just being smart. After all, given the ongoing legal brouhaha over the lease at Gila River Arena between the NHL team and city of Glendale, who knows if the $15 million a year subsidy to the Coyotes will continue. That’s a lot of loot handing in the balance.

This reminds me of when the Tampa Bay Lightning’s previous owners, Oren Koules and Len Barrie, handed the team back to Palace Sports and Entertainment because they couldn’t keep funding the hockey team and complete their seller-financed debt payments.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by New Era

Add in that you have 3.25 million people in the city and it becomes a challenge to get around, even with 10 lane highways in spots.

Isn't the Metro population north of 4M?

The physical size of Phoenix is completely mind boggling.

[Envitro]

~4.5 million in Phoenix metro area. And yeah, it's a damned sprawl.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Is Barroway a flake?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...izona-coyotes/

This whole thing is stinky. The NHL just wants to protect their franchise values and has bent their rules about owners and financing to try and attract investors. This isn't the least bit surprising.

[automaton 3]

Some further court dates have been set:

The parties agreed to meet for another court hearing June 29, to discuss the status of the case, with subsequent hearings to consider and debate the evidence from each side tentatively scheduled for July 31, August 7 and August 10.

http://www.glendalestar.com/news/art...1fb744ccc.html

[JBR]

Originally Posted by getbak

When the Talking Stick Resort was mentioned earlier, I believe it was in reference to the new name for the US Airways Center (i.e. where the Suns play), not an arena actually at the Talking Stick Resort.

That is exactly correct. The Suns are looking at arena options in the downtown area.

[GioforPM]

The baseball and basketball entertainment area is nice. I didn't think there was more room though.

[Joborule]

By far the most realistic option at this point now is the Coyotes are gonna relocate to a different city in a couple years, but it would be perfect comedy if they end up moving to a new arena in the downtown Phoenix region. That would be an absolute win for them, when that possibility wasn't even in consideration until Glendale opened up this bag of worms.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Joborule

By far the most realistic option at this point now is the Coyotes are gonna relocate to a different city in a couple years, but it would be perfect comedy if they end up moving to a new arena in the downtown Phoenix region. That would be an absolute win for them, when that possibility wasn't even in consideration until Glendale opened up this bag of worms.

Perfect comedy would be for the Suns/Coyotes to play out of Glendale for a few seasons while the Talking Stick Resort area in torn down and a new home is built on site.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Metro Calgary is 5,107 square kilometers in size.

The numbers usually given for Metro Calgary are a bit misleading because that's the size of the CMA. Unfortunately, there are some big areas which you'd consider to be metro Calgary (the whole counties of Rockyview and Foothills which includes Springbank and all the other areas around of Calgary for example) who are not members of the CMA. In other words, while Cochrane is counted, all of the land between Calgary and Cochrane is excluded in the number.

I believe though that even with all that land included Phoenix would be bigger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_Region

It does include Tsu T'ina though and I'm not sure if the Phoenix number includes Indian reservations

According to the wiki you posted, the Calgary CMA includes Rocky View County which includes all those lands you excluded. The wiki repeats my claim that Calgary CMA is 5,107 square km, with Calgary itself being 825.29 square km. For local comparison sake, Edmonton CMA is 9,426 square km, and Edmonton itself being 684.37 square km. Both pale in comparison to Phoenix, which is 1,338.26 square km in size. An interesting contrast is the graphic in this article comparing Edmonton and Phoenix.



That should give everyone a little more insight into the size of just Phoenix, which is a small chunk of the metro area, which is much larger than the map presented in this thread.

I don't believe that the Indian reservations are included in the metro Phoenix area as they are considered sovereign entities. They do include some real vast areas though. There are stretches of land west of town that are pretty barren, but they are included in the metro area. It is really strange being a half hour away from what you would consider the last off ramp to civilization and then seeing a street sign for 376th Ave, because that is the only place the metro area can grow. It is mind numbingly huge.

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

So it is west, I was wrong. But the arena is definitely two miles north of Phoenix as you can see on the map. That's what I remember is driving two miles south and suddenly being in Phoenix. I was surprised it was that close to the city.

For a new arena I still think somewhere more central, even downtown Scottsdale, would be much better than Talking Stick Resort (which would be close to that "Fountain Hills" area on the map).

The interesting thing about Phoenix is there is no room left. It is constrained by each and every municipality that surrounds it. The only thing the city can do is to re-purpose lands or use eminent domain to grab the real estate the city needs to expand up or improve infrastructure. For the city of Phoenix to provide lands for another arena they will have to likely go south of Lincoln and grab lands from some of the poorer people in town. This would be the equivalent of Calgary doing that to Victoria Park.

The idea of going into downtown Scottsdale is a non-starter. Scottsdale doesn't have a downtown to really speak off. It is the original tourist trap with the highlights being the fashion square and Old Town. There isn't room in Scottsdale for an arena, and the road system could not support the traffic for it either.

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Isn't the Metro population north of 4M?

The physical size of Phoenix is completely mind boggling.

There are various reports of the metro population. The city has a very large transient - nee snowbird - population that it could easily swell to that 4 million mark. Which ever number you want to take, and I prefer the more conservative one, it is a big freakin' city.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The baseball and basketball entertainment area is nice. I didn't think there was more room though.

The city will have to go south of the ballpark, which puts it south of Lincoln, and into some really depressed parts of town. They could do it using eminent domain, but that would really piss off a lot of people and would probably result in more recalls. The Suns and Coyotes really have to look for vacant land that is big enough for a new arena and build something on that. Based on the constraints placed on the various municipalities, this is almost an impossible task.

[sureLoss]

Craig Morgan @cmorganfoxaz
Glendale has filed a motion filed asking the court to allow it to withhold a $3.75 million 4th-quarter payment (per agreement) to Coyotes.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Craig Morgan @cmorganfoxaz
Glendale has filed a motion filed asking the court to allow it to withhold a $3.75 million 4th-quarter payment (per agreement) to Coyotes.

Jesus christ, the judge already denied their request last week.

Move temporarily to Downtown. It's not like we fill the building more than 13k a night anyways in Glendale.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Jesus christ, the judge already denied their request last week.

Did he?

Didn't the judge just issue a temp. injuction against terminating the lease? That might be the same thing for all intents and purposes but if the Yotes are paid for lease work to be done (rather then work already performed) then I think it's a valid request... why pay for work that you don't believe the other party will be performing. If they're paid for services already rendered then yes it's an odd (and pointless) request.

[automaton 3]

Here is the entire Motion...some interesting reading in the Exhibits:

http://archive.azcentral.com/persist...ng%20Order.pdf

[troutman]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...deal/28933067/

The motion includes supporting documents that, for the first time, present some of Glendale's case alleging that former City Attorney Craig Tindall and a then-communications manager, Julie Frisoni, were involved in the city's agreement with the Coyotes and subsequently went to work for the team.

That alleged conflict of interest allows the city to terminate the Coyotes agreement under state law, according to Glendale's filing.

Ex E - Craig and Anthony like to meet at Starbucks and for lunch meetings. Jan. 2012.

Ex. H - Dick Bowers strongly cautioned COG attorney June 25, 2013 about the "level of risk" for Glendale. "Discomfort with the unknowns". "Revenue projections - high degree of uncertainty".

[troutman]

Glendale outlines legal case for killing NHL Coyotes arena deal

http://www.tsn.ca/glendale-outlines-...-deal-1.312572

While he was city attorney, Tindall was the primary city contact and negotiator for hockey and first met current Coyotes part-owner Anthony LeBlanc sometime in early 2010, if not before, the court documents say.

"It was Tindall's ardent support for the (arena) agreement in the face of opposition... which is believed to have influenced and helped to secure the city council's approval of the agreement in July 2013," the documents say. "Within weeks of helping to secure the agreement's approval, in August 2013 Tindall went to work for (the Coyotes) as their general counsel."

The city alleges Frisoni "was also significantly involved in securing the agreement's approval, including providing information to city council members in support of the agreement just days before the council voted on the agreement."

The court documents also include emails as far back as 2010 that purport to show a relationship between Tindall and his future employers at the Coyotes, while Tindall was still working for the city and when LeBlanc was trying to buy the struggling NHL team.

In an Apr. 13, 2010, email to Tindall that was copied to LeBlanc, Coyotes part-owner Daryl Jones wrote, "Good luck closing the transaction Craig. Even though the last week or so was a bit testy, we enjoyed working with you and getting to know you."

Other emails were included in the court filings that show LeBlanc, Jones and Tindall joking about NFL football and discussing deficiencies in a bid for the Coyotes by Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf.

Glendale lawyers also included emails from March 2011 between Tindall and LeBlanc that details Tindall's efforts to convince LeBlanc to invest in an unnamed medical device company.

In one March 2, 2011, email, LeBlanc wrote he was starting a "small hedge fund based out of Canada (but with a global investment portfolio) and are right now exploring small start ups to invest in. We are very close to a deal with a small tech firm based out of Atlanta, but we want to do a minimum of two investments this year. We would be very interested in taking a look."

Tindall replied: "The money in medical devices is ridiculous. At the very least, it's cool technology and I know you love that."

In a July 26, 2013, email to Glendale city manager Brenda Fischer – while Tindall was still being paid severance by the city but weeks before he was hired by the Coyotes – he appears to give advice about trying to finalize the arena management contract.

"There (are a) few issues outstanding that still have the potential for killing this deal; although they are truly not significant enough to do so," Tindall wrote. "Frankly, neither party needs to waste time (and lots of money on lawyers) arguing about marginal issues."

Tindall wrote that there are "acceptable answers for everything," and encouraged Fischer to "move the lawyers along to close this deal."
Glendale's city council voted July 2, 2013, to approve the arena management agreement.

Days earlier, on June 30, according to court documents, Frisoni emailed four city councillors who would later vote in favour of the contract with bullet points of the deal. Frisoni does not appear to have emailed the other three city councillors who were opposed to the arena deal.