[Rumour] Friedman: Flames aggressive in trade market. Getting calls on Hudler.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Which is a poor line of thinking. This is a playoff team that went to the second round and are entertaining trading the leading scorer? Why aren't we talking about an extension?

Or are we simply accepting all the 'unsustainable!' people were correct, this team was playing way over it's head and is actually bad, and will not be any good next season, so it's better to stay in re-build mode?

This is exactly the line of thinking that got us, and gets many other teams, into trouble.

[MtnSldr]

I would like to see the flames offer Huddler and pick #45 to Washington for Tom Wilson and and Karl Alzner. Might have to throw in backlund to get it done

[BrownDrake]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Brodie's a key component of this team and didn't get extended for 5+ seasons. I could see Hudler accepting a shorter term deal if he likes the situation here and understands the organizations need for flexibility as his young linemates come up for contract renewals.

Brodie was an RFA and took a bridge deal to get him to free agency.

I don't think at Hudlers age, likely his value never gets higher, he accepts the risk of shorter 2 to 3 year deal when their will be teams tripping over themselves to sign him to a 5 to 6 year deal, in his case thats probably a difference of 15 to 20 million.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by MtnSldr

I would like to see the flames offer Huddler and pick #45 to Washington for Tom Wilson and and Karl Alzner. Might have to throw in backlund to get it done

Since when is Backlund a throw in?

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The likely term that Hudler is wanting is also going to be the killer. Treliving has said that they don't want to get bogged down by bloated term contracts. I believe that is part of the reason they walked away from Cammalleri as they didn't want to give him 5 years. I wouldn't want Hudler on a 5+ year deal, and he is going to want that. I would, anyone would if you were in that situation.

The problem is that what do you do with him? Do you keep him and let him walk at the end of the year for nothing? What happens if the Flames are firmly in a playoff spot or are in a dog fight like this past season? Do you trade him and risk losing out on a playoff spot?

Addressing it now would allow the Flames the flexibility to try and fix the hole that would be created by his departure.

The problem is that your return for him right now is not going to be any better than it would be at the deadline. Highly doubt that a team is going to give up a high first for him.
Maybe you move him for a dman but then you just create a hole to fill another.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by MtnSldr

I would like to see the flames offer Huddler and pick #45 to Washington for Tom Wilson and and Karl Alzner. Might have to throw in backlund to get it done

No chance Washington does that IMO. Hudler's great, but Alzner is in his prime and Wilson is an up and coming power forward for them.

[Calgary Highlander]

An interesting scenario would be trading Hudler for a high value and acquire Kessel for cheap.

We can address our needs on defense (or acquire A level prospects/1st round picks) without hurting the team's offensive ability. We lose a character guy in Hudler, but I think the Kessel=cancer thing is way overblown. Kessel would not be given star treatment in Calgary (media or coaches). The stars of this team are Giordano, Gaudreau, and Monahan and those three are probably the hardest working players on the team. I think he'd fall in line with their work ethic.

We would be competitive for the next few years and hopefully become contenders as some of the prospects develop into front end players.

[heep223]

Kessel again....I'll never forgive Friedman for this.

NO TO KESSEL

See the other thread for all the analysis. He's making $8M until 2022 and it doesn't come close to making sense from a long term cap perspective.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander

An interesting scenario would be trading Hudler for a high value and acquire Kessel for cheap.

We can address our needs on defense (or acquire A level prospects/1st round picks) without hurting the team's offensive ability. We lose a character guy in Hudler, but I think the Kessel=cancer thing is way overblown. Kessel would not be given star treatment in Calgary (media or coaches). The stars of this team are Giordano, Gaudreau, and Monahan and those three are probably the hardest working players on the team. I think he'd fall in line with their work ethic.

We would be competitive for the next few years and hopefully become contenders as some of the prospects develop into front end players.

What do you do when the stars want to be paid equivalent to or more than Kessel, cause like you said they are the stars of the team

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Hesla

The problem is that your return for him right now is not going to be any better than it would be at the deadline. Highly doubt that a team is going to give up a high first for him.
Maybe you move him for a dman but then you just create a hole to fill another.

True, but there is a possibility to fix the hole that he would leave now by signing a free agent replacement. Both Stafford and Williams (the top 2 RW on the market) would be more likely to want a shorter term contract in the 3 year range. Williams is 33 now, and a 3 year deal would allow him to be able to get another 3 year deal after that one is done. Stafford is 29 and a 3 year deal would allow him to sign another long term deal once that's done.

Hudler should be able to return a 20ish overall pick + a top prospect. An unexpected team like Buffalo might be interested in his ability to help young players develop and they select at 21. They could be willing to part with that if it meant getting a legit player to play with Eichel and Ennis. They also are very flush in defensive prospects as well as other draft picks, they have 31 and 51 as well.

It all depends on the who's and what's that are out there.

[Ro]

Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander

...but I think the Kessel=cancer thing is way overblown. Kessel would not be given star treatment in Calgary (media or coaches)...I think he'd fall in line with their work ethic.

I can see how you might think that from a Calgary perspective, but what has Kessel done on his end to make anyone think that's even remotely possible? He literally gave up on his team 5 or 6 games into the Horachek era. I think he's a bum.

Not to mention:

-He's massively overpaid
-His term is crazy (signed until 2022!)
-He has (arguably) never in his career been in above average physical condition
-He takes long shifts, and coasts around for the last 15-30 secs of many of them
-He is awful in his own end
-He often freelances and strays from the team system
-He is terrible with the media, which would only be slightly toned down in Calgary as opposed to a smaller hockey market
-By some accounts, he isn't the kind of teammate off the ice that guys are psyched to be around

Anyways, I know this thread isn't about Kessel but I hope the Leafs are stuck with him for another 7 years. And I really hope we aren't inquiring about him.

[Ro]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The problem is that what do you do with Hudler? Do you keep him and let him walk at the end of the year for nothing? What happens if the Flames are firmly in a playoff spot or are in a dog fight like this past season? Do you trade him and risk losing out on a playoff spot?

Addressing it now would allow the Flames the flexibility to try and fix the hole that would be created by his departure.

Excellent point. I would add however, that it's quite likely this team finds itself out of the playoff picture next season, given how much they overachieved based on their advanced metrics.

Treliving and Co. could be thinking that he either helps us remain in the mix, or he's the #1 most valuable trade asset come February 2016.

[jmac98]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Which is a poor line of thinking. This is a playoff team that went to the second round and are entertaining trading the leading scorer? Why aren't we talking about an extension?

Or are we simply accepting all the 'unsustainable!' people were correct, this team was playing way over it's head and is actually bad, and will not be any good next season, so it's better to stay in re-build mode?

This was a playoff team based on circumstances both within and outside Calgary's control. They fought tooth and nail to edge into the playoffs this year, but were also the benefactors of shortcomings from other teams as well.

Los Angeles can very easily become a playoff team next season. As well, Dallas and Colorado should be right in the fold as they're on the up and up. Edmonton eventually is going to win in spite of themselves, and while Vancouver and San Jose are trending down, both should still compete for the playoffs and one of those teams, with a few moves, could easily turn their fate around on short order via a makeshift mini rebuild or what not.

Realistically, Calgary could play just as well next year if not better than this past season and find themselves on the outside looking in after 82 games. They faired much better last season than many had them pegged for, however, it does not mean their work is done on a rebuild based on this alone.

The notion to move Hudler makes sense, most notably based on where his contract stands at present and the parameters surrounding it. Staying put and resting your laurels on a team who made the playoffs on game 81 and benefitted from other teams faltering if even a little is not good business savvy. It's a false impression of a work still in progress. The Flames are clearly on the right track but still have some work to do within the foundation of a rebuild premise. And if they stay the course, it could make all the different for a long time between a team 'trying' to reach the playoffs each season based on circumstance, versus one of those teams expected to be in annually.

Just my thoughts for right or wrong.

Thanks for reading.

[MrMastodonFarm]

If you want a draft to load up on picks, this is certainly the one do to so.

Hudler wouldn't be an easy move but the decision is coming. He's going to be looking for bigger dollars next summer and the Flames have to save on cap space moving forward. If Treliving feels he can flip Hudler for a good prospect and high pick, maybe fill that hole via Ufa or player already in the system, hope he does it.

Love what Jiri did last season, on and off the ice have to explore this option. Flames very well could miss the post season next spring, but will be better long term regardless.

[H2SO4(aq)]

I will be mighty sad when hudler leaves. He scored probably the best empty net goal I've ever seen, never been so choked up during a hockey game than that.

But its a business, and good business is to sell high on him..

[The Original FFIV]

Key point is that he's not going anywhere unless someone overpays. A team that will overpay is one that is under pressure to make some noise. When you look league wide there are only a handful of teams that appear to fall under this category. Here's who I see

Boston - missed playoffs and fired their gm. Change is coming
Montreal - came close to conference finals again this year and bergevin isnt shy to make moves
NYR - similar to Montreal are close and need someone to put them over top
Pittsburgh - another disappointing exit. Rutherford in last year and probably wants to go out a winner. Need someone to play with Sid
StL - like Pittsburgh another early exit. Coach stays, core must change

Look at the rosters/reserve lists/draft picks of these teams. Is there anything these teams have that would blow our doors off, considering they want to add in most cases and not subtract?

Boston. Lucic would be nice but has one year left and is showing signs of decline. Would they give their first for Hudler?

Montreal. Have #25 in this year's draft but are small up front to begin with. Middling prospects. Only player of interest would be galchenyuk and and don't think they would

NYR. Have traded most of their firsts in the st Louis/yandle deals and cupboard is a bit bare. Unlikely to deal any good young roster players for Hudler

Pittsburgh. Like NYR cupboard is bare and no first rounder. Sutter would be nice but like Lukic a year away from ufa. Would they trade Harrington? One of their last good young players left. Probably moving Malkin to restock.

St Louis. Need to move old core out. Their old core is close to ufa so not much interest unless it comes with something young. Have traded picks so not much in the way of those assets and unlikely to deal young roster players.

Thought ottawa and Philly might be good partners but don't see either team with the same urgency to make a splash like the others. Ottawa has cap constraints and Philly has a cap mess to clean up while at the same time in a restock mode.

Just can't see a fit based on the above. Teams that probably want him the most don't have what we want or won't give up what we want. Good to keep listening but can't see it happening unless a rival gm gets absolutely desperate.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

I will be mighty sad when hudler leaves. He scored probably the best empty net goal I've ever seen, never been so choked up during a hockey game than that.

But its a business, and good business is to sell high on him..

Great post, you can be a fan, love certain players and still see the hockey ops side of things.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander

An interesting scenario would be trading Hudler for a high value and acquire Kessel for cheap.

We can address our needs on defense (or acquire A level prospects/1st round picks) without hurting the team's offensive ability. We lose a character guy in Hudler, but I think the Kessel=cancer thing is way overblown. Kessel would not be given star treatment in Calgary (media or coaches). The stars of this team are Giordano, Gaudreau, and Monahan and those three are probably the hardest working players on the team. I think he'd fall in line with their work ethic.

We would be competitive for the next few years and hopefully become contenders as some of the prospects develop into front end players.

So we trade Hudler because we likely can't afford his next contract and its term and then get Kessel? I wouldn't do that.

[Armchair Quarterback]

Originally Posted by Ro

I can see how you might think that from a Calgary perspective, but what has Kessel done on his end to make anyone think that's even remotely possible? He literally gave up on his team 5 or 6 games into the Horachek era. I think he's a bum.

Not to mention:

-He's massively overpaid
-His term is crazy (signed until 2022!)
-He has (arguably) never in his career been in above average physical condition
-He takes long shifts, and coasts around for the last 15-30 secs of many of them
-He is awful in his own end
-He often freelances and strays from the team system
-He is terrible with the media, which would only be slightly toned down in Calgary as opposed to a smaller hockey market
-By some accounts, he isn't the kind of teammate off the ice that guys are psyched to be around

Anyways, I know this thread isn't about Kessel but I hope the Leafs are stuck with him for another 7 years. And I really hope we aren't inquiring about him.

THIS. Nothing personal against Kessel but in the past Calgary has done way too many trades with loser teams, esp. Toronto. If we do trade Hudler (which I think is a bad idea) it should have nothing to do with Toronto unless it involves a butt load of draft picks.

[Mattman]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

I will be mighty sad when hudler leaves. He scored probably the best empty net goal I've ever seen, never been so choked up during a hockey game than that.

But its a business, and good business is to sell high on him..

Amen.

There's so many "what ifs" to trading Hudler but at the end of the day its still about winning the cup. Not memories of that one season we made it to the 2nd round.

Separate feelings from business and look to improve your team.