Manners/Social Conventions You Don't Follow

[TSXCman]

Wait... is this the RGMG thread?

I don't like when people say "cheers" like it's shalom. Hi, bye, please, thanks, and you're welcome are NOT the same as "cheers".

[East Coast Flame]

What kind of anti-social weirdo wouldn't cheers? Wow, that's a new one. What a bizzare stance to take.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by TSXCman

Wait... is this the RGMG thread?

I don't like when people say "cheers" like it's shalom. Hi, bye, please, thanks, and you're welcome are NOT the same as "cheers".

It's the new RGMG thread, except it doesn't get bogged down by four pages of repetitive traffic conversation every three days.

[HHW]

Thanks for posting statistics - will reply in more depth in time. However,

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

* (The Netherlands has 22 million people to Australia's 16.6 million, or 1.33 times as many people).
.

Incorrect, those are backwards. NED has 16.8 and AUS has 22.1 That makes a big difference.

Adjusted for size, there would approx. 2950 head injuries in the Netherlands vs 1122 in Australia. That is over 2.5 times as frequent.

Add in the observation that the Dutch cycling infrastructure is far superior and thus safer as cyclist don't generally share the road with cars (I am Dutch and can attest to this), and the statistics are telling.

[Fuzz]

I'm not sure you can just divide population by injuries and compare. lets face it, there are far more cyclists in the Netherlands, so you would expect injury numbers to be higher, just based on that.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TSXCman

Wait... is this the RGMG thread?

I don't like when people say "cheers" like it's shalom. Hi, bye, please, thanks, and you're welcome are NOT the same as "cheers".

Never spent any time in Britain, have you? They say cheers almost as much as they say the other "C" word there.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Research showing the mandatory helmet laws reduce cycling. Dutch health authorities phrase it this way: Cycling helmet laws save a few heads, and lose many hearts. We reduce a very small number of one type of harm (head injuries), and substantially increase another type (heart disease, obesity).

Can anyone explain why this is? Like, is it a vanity thing? People don't want to mess up their hair?

I wear a helmet every day and it's pretty much like putting on a seatbelt -- it's just an automatic thing to do, you have to do up a buckle, and then you (or at least I) don't even know it's there.

To me it's not much different than saying "I would walk, but I hate putting shoes on...".

When I was younger I had a Giro helmet that looked like a mushroom and felt like a bowling ball and I hated wearing it. They all were like that in the mid-90's.

Now though, there are million different styles, they are lightweight, cheap, look perfectly normal (you don't have to look like a Lance Armstrong wannabe) and perfectly comfortable.

[calf]

Originally Posted by polak

But you see, I can understand the Happy Birthday thing. It puts you in an awkward spot and it's not a quick thing either.

Something like refusing to cheers on the other hand? I don't get...

The thing is, to my family, it's "refuses to get sung happy birthday to? I don't get it...". No matter how much I hate to do it, they don't get the hangup. I'm sure the guy who hates cheersing is feeling the exact same way. I don't really get the hangup, but I get the feeling (I think) that he feels.

[Slava]

I can only assume that the people who refuse to sing Happy Birthday have no kids?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by TSXCman

Wait... is this the RGMG thread?

I don't like when people say "cheers" like it's shalom. Hi, bye, please, thanks, and you're welcome are NOT the same as "cheers".

I am with you on that one, at least at the end of emails. That, and "regards", although I find that one a little more tolerable.

I would rather have nothing to formally end a memo or email than "cheers". It just sounds smarmy to me.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am with you on that one, at least at the end of emails. That, and "regards", although I find that one a little more tolerable.

I would rather have nothing to formally end a memo or email than "cheers". It just sounds smarmy to me.

Agreed.

Or 'best' to end an email. I disregard you and everything you say if this is how you close am email. It's an incomplete closer and sounds moronic.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Can anyone explain why this is? Like, is it a vanity thing? People don't want to mess up their hair?

I wear a helmet every day and it's pretty much like putting on a seatbelt -- it's just an automatic thing to do, you have to do up a buckle, and then you (or at least I) don't even know it's there.

To me it's not much different than saying "I would walk, but I hate putting shoes on...".

When I was younger I had a Giro helmet that looked like a mushroom and felt like a bowling ball and I hated wearing it. They all were like that in the mid-90's.

Now though, there are million different styles, they are lightweight, cheap, look perfectly normal (you don't have to look like a Lance Armstrong wannabe) and perfectly comfortable.

I've cycled a lot in my life, never wore a helmet until I was 20. My worst injury back then was crashing while doing a wheelie, hit a rock and split my side open when I hit the pavement. If I crashed I never hit my head.

That said, I haven't ridden without one in more than 2 decades. The times you get hurt are the times you aren't expecting it. As Rouge says, helmets are comfortable and look half decent, there's no reason not to have one.

I think the stats in the European countries also have to do with the fact the cyclists get a ton more respect over there than here.

[Coach]

Firstly, I would say this is quite a bit different from the WGMG thread. I think it's interesting to see what standard conventions people don't follow and why. Some are ludicrous, most are just interesting quirks. The only part that is similar to the WGMG thread is the people responding.

Secondly, I think I can call this a social convention at this point. I am just not a huge fan of bacon. I see all this bacon wrapped stuff that people go crazy over and it gets a big "meh" from me. I like a few strips with some eggs, or on a sandwich, but a grilled cheese wrapped in 15 strips of bacon? Bacon frosting? Bacon-flavored anything? Not for me.

[TSXCman]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Firstly, I would say this is quite a bit different from the WGMG thread. I think it's interesting to see what standard conventions people don't follow and why. Some are ludicrous, most are just interesting quirks. The only part that is similar to the WGMG thread is the people responding.

Secondly, I think I can call this a social convention at this point. I am just not a huge fan of bacon. I see all this bacon wrapped stuff that people go crazy over and it gets a big "meh" from me. I like a few strips with some eggs, or on a sandwich, but a grilled cheese wrapped in 15 strips of bacon? Bacon frosting? Bacon-flavored anything? Not for me.

Yea, my WRGMG comment was just tongue-in-cheek. Should get this thread back on track.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by habernac

I think the stats in the European countries also have to do with the fact the cyclists get a ton more respect over there than here.

I think it has a lot to do with how their cities are constructed, especially the downtown cores. They are way more pedestrian friendly and cyclists can often switch into pedestrian mode when it suits them.

Originally Posted by MattyC

Firstly, I would say this is quite a bit different from the WGMG thread. I think it's interesting to see what standard conventions people don't follow and why. Some are ludicrous, most are just interesting quirks. The only part that is similar to the WGMG thread is the people responding.

Secondly, I think I can call this a social convention at this point. I am just not a huge fan of bacon. I see all this bacon wrapped stuff that people go crazy over and it gets a big "meh" from me. I like a few strips with some eggs, or on a sandwich, but a grilled cheese wrapped in 15 strips of bacon? Bacon frosting? Bacon-flavored anything? Not for me.

Did you ever try the bacon caesars? It's like drinking vomit.

[Titan]

I like empirical statistical analysis of risk. However, it is academic. What I took from those studies is that a heck of a lot of people are getting into bicycle accidents. Whether it is safer or more dangerous than walking is irrelevant because you have already decided to cycle. From a cost to society basis the number of cycling accidents is pretty small. From a cost to my family perspective a catastrophic head injury is pretty high.

When I litigated for the City i heard the "one in a hundred" argument a bunch of times. Well guess what, that 1 in a 100 storm could happen three years in a row. It is much a classification of its intensity as it is a forecast. I also saw a bunch of people that were pretty badly hurt from situations they did not expect, including a bike rider. If you want to play the odds, good for you. I would rather reduce the chances of a significant head injury by wearing a helmet.

You did get me thinking though that a helmet while driving and even walking is not really a crazy idea.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think it has a lot to do with how their cities are constructed, especially the downtown cores. They are way more pedestrian friendly and cyclists can often switch into pedestrian mode when it suits them.

Yeah I was wondering how many accidents involving cars per cyclist there are in Canada vs a place like The Netherlands. The thing I noticed when over there is that their cities were designed and built around pedestrians/cyclists, because those were the modes of transportation at the time they were being built and expanded. Cars are a secondary form and are much more cautious and drive a lot slower in the inner-city, but the pedestrians and cyclists I think are also more aware. Thinking back, I'm not even sure how many cars I saw while walking around downtown Amsterdam or Ghent. And really, with the way the cities are built, I don't see why you'd even own a car.

Did you ever try the bacon caesars? It's like drinking vomit.

Another convention. Almost anyone I know loves caesers. Especially in the am/early afternoon. Call it a hangover cure. I hate them. Can't understand what people enjoy about them. If I want a liquid, I want it to quench my thirst, not be a meal. What's with all the food in my drink?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Can anyone explain why this is? Like, is it a vanity thing? People don't want to mess up their hair?

I wear a helmet every day and it's pretty much like putting on a seatbelt -- it's just an automatic thing to do, you have to do up a buckle, and then you (or at least I) don't even know it's there.

To me it's not much different than saying "I would walk, but I hate putting shoes on...".

Let me ask you this:

What do you think the public reaction would be if the Canadian College of Physicians recommended all motorists and passengers wear helmets whenever they traveled by car? And if the provincial government introduced a bill to make helmets mandatory for everyone under 18 in a car? How many people do you think would be onboard with that trade-off of convenience and comfort for safety?

And frankly, it's a lot less of a hassle for motorists to wear helmets because you can just leave a helmet in a car rather than need to carry it around with you everywhere. That's the other big hassle with helmets: carrying them everywhere when you're not on your bike.

In Canada, we consider cycling an activity. We put on helmets, special clothes, and say we're going for a bike ride. When we get in our car to go to Starbucks to get a coffee, or to the drug store to get some Advil, we don't say we're going for a car ride. We say we're going to Starbucks, or to the drug store.

Cycling will grow when it's no longer considered an activity, when it's simply a common means of transportation. And when you use cycling as a common means of transportation, you end up places with other people. And now you have a helmet in your hand. You have a helmet in your hand at the mall, you have a helmet in your hand watching a movie, you have a helmet on the table at Earl's. And yes, people, especially women, are not going to want to go out to the mall, or to a movie, or to Earls, with a helmet in their hand and their hair messed up.

There's a reason that the only major city where a bike share a program has flopped is Melbourne, Australia, which has a helmet law. The idea of bike share programs (and widespread urban cycling in general), is that people can on the spur of the moment and as a convenience hop on a bike to ride 4 of 6 or 10 blocks to meet with friends. That's just not going to happen if every potential rider has to carry a helmet with them 24/7.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yeah I was wondering how many accidents involving cars per cyclist there are in Canada vs a place like The Netherlands. The thing I noticed when over there is that their cities were designed and built around pedestrians/cyclists, because those were the modes of transportation at the time they were being built and expanded. Cars are a secondary form and are much more cautious and drive a lot slower in the inner-city, but the pedestrians and cyclists I think are also more aware. Thinking back, I'm not even sure how many cars I saw while walking around downtown Amsterdam or Ghent. And really, with the way the cities are built, I don't see why you'd even own a car.

Yes, cities in the Netherlands and Denmark are more bike-friendly, and drivers more aware of cyclists. But there's no way they're as safe as Calgary's pathway system, where there are no motor vehicles to speak of. And yet I'm catching flak here for saying I don't wear a helmet when I'm riding 15 km/hr on a dedicated pathway system free of motor vehicles.

I'm not saying people shouldn't wear helmets. I'm saying people should be free to exercise their judgement about the risks, and decide when and where they wear helmets. But I understand that we live a society where degrees of risk, where judgement and discretion, are trumped by binary good/bad safe/unsafe social conventions.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Let me ask you this:

What do you think the public reaction would be if the Canadian College of Physicians recommended all motorists and passengers wear helmets whenever they traveled by car? And if the provincial government introduced a bill to make helmets mandatory for everyone under 18 in a car? How many people do you think would be onboard with that trade-off of convenience and comfort for safety?

And frankly, it's a lot less of a hassle for motorists to wear helmets because you can just leave a helmet in a car rather than need to carry it around with you everywhere. That's the other big hassle with helmets: carrying them everywhere when you're not on your bike.

In Canada, we consider cycling an activity. We put on helmets, special clothes, and say we're going for a bike ride. When we get in our car to go to Starbucks to get a coffee, or to the drug store to get some Advil, we don't say we're going for a car ride. We say we're going to Starbucks, or to the drug store.

Cycling will grow when it's no longer considered an activity, when it's simply a common means of transportation. And when you use cycling as a common means of transportation, you end up places with other people. And now you have a helmet in your hand. You have a helmet in your hand at the mall, you have a helmet in your hand watching a movie, you have a helmet on the table at Earl's. And yes, people, especially women, are not going to want to go out to the mall, or to a movie, or to Earls, with a helmet in their hand and their hair messed up.

There's a reason that the only major city where a bike share a program has flopped is Melbourne, Australia, which has a helmet law. The idea of bike share programs (and widespread urban cycling in general), is that people can on the spur of the moment and as a convenience hop on a bike to ride 4 of 6 or 10 blocks to meet with friends. That's just not going to happen if every potential rider has to carry a helmet with them 24/7.

I don't agree with your "I don't wear a helmet" position generally but you are spot on. Imagine going out for a pint with your buddy's and having to lug around your helmet. In fact, when I went to the Flames game this spring and rode my bike, I felt like a tool carrying my helmet around at the game. It was inconvenient, in future, I'll likely just leave my helmet at home.