A Song of Ice and Fire **Spoilers** Now more TV talk!

[MickMcGeough]

I get why people are wigging out over it but even us book nerds don't know if that really happens or not.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by MickMcGeough

I get why people are wigging out over it but even us book nerds don't know if that really happens or not.

Exactly.
This season is has completely departed from the original storyline, thank goodness.
Those last two books were truly painful, I thought.

[Matata]

It's hard to justify the watch turning on Jon now, theirs only 5000 wildlings left and they just confirmed that the army of the dead is now on their doorstep.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Matata

It's hard to justify the watch turning on Jon now, theirs only 5000 wildlings left and they just confirmed that the army of the dead is now on their doorstep.

Et tu, Ollie?

[Jude]

Except Sansa is now actually at winterfell. Bringing a few thousand wildlings across the wall and abandoning his oath (especially after witnessing the others) is probably compelling enough for the writers to have some of his brothers turn on Jon.

I'd be disappointed if the show runners only played on ollys wildling hatred to justify the impending stabbing.

As much as a dick Bowen Marsh was in the books, the attack was justifiable due to Jon's intent at the end of ADWD.

[Matata]

It seems like it's down to Ollie or Alliser turning on Jon, both of which seem dumb to me. I honestly thought Jon was going to get got during the battle of hardhome, because the watch turning on him doesn't make sense anymore.

[GreenLantern]

I think they are only dropping subtle hints to keep the show watchers clueless. Just enough so that when it does happen they can look back and go Ahh yea thats right the watch was pretty pissed at John.

I would imagine there will be a few more tense moments before it actually happens in episodes 9 and 10 as well to build further animosity.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I think they are only dropping subtle hints to keep the show watchers clueless. Just enough so that when it does happen they can look back and go Ahh yea thats right the watch was pretty pissed at John.

I would imagine there will be a few more tense moments before it actually happens in episodes 9 and 10 as well to build further animosity.

Jon*

[Matata]

I recall Jon making a lot of questionable decisions in the book, where in the show he's basically been the rock star battle commander who always ends up being right about everything.

[Hemi-Cuda]

I don't understand why so many book readers assume that Jon is dead. Stabbed definitely, but there's nothing definitive about how he fared after that happened

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

I don't understand why so many book readers assume that Jon is dead. Stabbed definitely, but there's nothing definitive about how he fared after that happened

Because Azor Ahai must be reborn. The books have both suggested its Darnerys and Stannis. So obviously it can't be them.

[Puckin' Rights!]

So Jon is going to be Azor Ahai? That's an interesting thought. Does it happen when Melisandre brings him back from the dead, assuming she does that is.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Puckin' Rights!

So Jon is going to be Azor Ahai? That's an interesting thought. Does it happen when Melisandre brings him back from the dead, assuming she does that is.

That's my guess.

[GreenLantern]

If I made a wild guess, Ramsay and his 20 will assasinate Stannis. The red witch will try and res him with pens Ultima Online 1997 styles, but will fail. It will be revealed to her through this that he is not in fact her Lord of Light but it has been John Snow all along!

She will make haste to the wall just in time for John to be stabbed and then res him as the LoL, the Wildlings will bow down/back him up, Stannis army will swear fealty (As the Queen is now their ruler and she follows the LoL) and all of a sudden John has an army behind him.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

She will make haste to the wall just in time for John to be stabbed and then res him as the LoL

Maybe a bit cliche, but I was thinking that Stannis and Jon would be killed at the same time or near enough (maybe episode 9). Melisandre sacrifices Shireen to bring back Azor Ahai-Stannis but at the Wall it's Jon who wakes up.

The biggest issue with that scenario, if Jon was to come back, even Sam would be boot stomping him thinking he was a wight.

[MickMcGeough]

Originally Posted by Puckin' Rights!

So Jon is going to be Azor Ahai? That's an interesting thought. Does it happen when Melisandre brings him back from the dead, assuming she does that is.

I'm actually not sure that Melisandre has much to do with this yet. Her visions have shown her that Jon is Azor Ahai at least twice that I can think of and she hasn't caught on yet ("I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow."). In fact it seems like by warning Jon of the "daggers in the dark" she's working against the prophecy instead of for it, since we know he's got to undergo some type of rebirth.

The missing piece for me is Lightbringer. I just can't see how Longclaw becomes Lightbringer (unless there's something about the Mormonts that I've totally missed).

I still think Lightbringer is sitting in a vault in Starfall, waiting for Jon to come of age. It's just too many coincidences. Dawn was last wielded by Arthur Dayne, on the day Jon was born, and at the place where Jon was born, in defense of Jon and his mother. Ned, with baby Jon, delivered Dawn back to Ashara Dayne at Starfall. Today, Samwell is at Oldtown, where I think he discovers information that leads him to search for Lightbringer at Starfall (which is just a short trip from Oldtown), before heading back to the wall.

[Puckin' Rights!]

Can you tell me where to find that information, Mick? I'd very much like to read it over!

[GreenLantern]

That is very interesting Mick good points. But where I am struggling with that is how does Sam convince House Dayne to part with the sword? John being all the way up at the wall, basically the complete opposite end of the continent, won't have much say in things either (assuming he is alive).

Dawn has never been wielded by anyone else but a Knight (not even just a Lord, has to be a Knight) of House Dayne who is worthy. So John would have to prove he is a Dayne, get Knighted and prove he is worthy to wrestle it out of Starfall.

All that being said, it does seem weird for Martin to spend time describing this awesome sword and then have it never be used again in the entire series. So maybe there is a piece to the puzzle I am missing here.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by MickMcGeough

I'm actually not sure that Melisandre has much to do with this yet. Her visions have shown her that Jon is Azor Ahai at least twice that I can think of and she hasn't caught on yet ("I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow."). In fact it seems like by warning Jon of the "daggers in the dark" she's working against the prophecy instead of for it, since we know he's got to undergo some type of rebirth.

The missing piece for me is Lightbringer. I just can't see how Longclaw becomes Lightbringer (unless there's something about the Mormonts that I've totally missed).

I still think Lightbringer is sitting in a vault in Starfall, waiting for Jon to come of age. It's just too many coincidences. Dawn was last wielded by Arthur Dayne, on the day Jon was born, and at the place where Jon was born, in defense of Jon and his mother. Ned, with baby Jon, delivered Dawn back to Ashara Dayne at Starfall. Today, Samwell is at Oldtown, where I think he discovers information that leads him to search for Lightbringer at Starfall (which is just a short trip from Oldtown), before heading back to the wall.

And the fact that Dawn and lifebringer are kind of the same type of word

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

We will see Daenerys ride Drogon to end this season, right?

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Probably not. Hell, I'm half convinced that will never happen in the books.

Well, I'll be damned.