I can't believe that in the year of our lord twenty-fifteen people still think "Sedin Sisters" is clever or funny.
Great job everyone, fighting the good fight to keep casual sexism/unfunny jokes alive.
You must be pretty dense if you don't realize the ramification of the comment is in the intent. If I call my wife manly because she did something out of character, it would be light-hearted and flirtatious. If you posted a picture of a female weightlifter and said "UGH SO MANLY!" you are a) valuing a woman based on appearance, b) using "manly" in a negative connotation to imply that she is less of a woman, like it's a thing that exists.
Binary gender roles aren't just going away, they never existed in the first place. Like the political spectrum, gender doesn't exist on a flat line, but stupid people often think it does.
Sorry, not implying the comment isn't a insult. I'm imply the comment is a trap.
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I wasn't the one who deleted it but I probably would have too. To be fair in threads like this it can be impossible to tell the difference between green text tongue in cheek and real posts. Everyone should help and if you mean green text, make it green or use a smiley or something, would help immensely.
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I'll bite on the "trap". I would not like to be called "manly", because I'm socialized to place an extremely high value on my feminine characteristics and traits. It's important that women "look" a certain way (attractive), act a certain way (accommodating, nice), etc.
Calling a woman "manly" is not an insult to men. It's an insult to a woman because you're telling her she's not acting or looking womanly enough.
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I may be posting the obvious but I have no clue, judging from the responses from my post I seem to having two completely different conversations
How do women feel about being called "manly"?
Is not an insult without yourself applying a context for it to be so. It's no different then a male having a feminine look.... It's only an insult if you apply a context for to be one. It's easy to take the stance oh it is an insult how horrible of a person you are but if there is no context to the statement then there is no way of telling if the question is an insult or not (I do believe the intent is posted to have you think so)
A male having a famine look can be a compliment if used in a the context to be one. There is zero information that the original question was drawn a concussion that the woman in the question being called "mainly" is said as a negitive thing or a positive thing
If we assume it is an insult then it is because of our own narrow minded views automatically drawing a conclusion without all the facts.... but without knowing why the woman looks manly we don't have enough information
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Last edited by Hanna Sniper; 04-13-2015 at 10:36 PM.
It wasn't a trap. I wasn't trying to checkmate anybody. I was just honestly curious.
It seems to me that calling somebody the opposite gender is offensive because we tend to value societal standards. When a man is called a woman, the man is offended because they aren't being viewed as "manly", and women are offended because it's made to seem that women are inferior, or that being womanly is offensive enough to be an insult.
The same can be said when a woman is referred to as a man, as Peanut pointed out.
I've never really viewed either insult as an attack on the opposite gender as saying "being that gender is an insult," but rather an attack on that person not fitting the role they're trying to portray. Feeding into their insecurities, I suppose.
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I'll bite on the "trap". I would not like to be called "manly", because I'm socialized to place an extremely high value on my feminine characteristics and traits. It's important that women "look" a certain way (attractive), act a certain way (accommodating, nice), etc.
Calling a woman "manly" is not an insult to men. It's an insult to a woman because you're telling her she's not acting or looking womanly enough.
That's pretty much exactly the same reason I don't think the Sedin sisters crack is insulting to women. What it's basically saying is that they aren't fulfilling their proper gender roles adequately. Hockey players place a high value on macho characteristics, and it's important to fans that they act that way. When they're called sisters it's insulting the twins because they aren't acting manly enough.
It's still a stupid joke and I stopped using it a couple years ago when I realized just how stupid it is, but I don't really see it degrading in the same sense that other posters here have alluded to.
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It wasn't a trap. I wasn't trying to checkmate anybody. I was just honestly curious.
It seems to me that calling somebody the opposite gender is offensive because we tend to value societal standards. When a man is called a woman, the man is offended because they aren't being viewed as "manly", and women are offended because it's made to seem that women are inferior, or that being womanly is offensive enough to be an insult.
The same can be said when a woman is referred to as a man, as Peanut pointed out.
I've never really viewed either insult as an attack on the opposite gender as saying "being that gender is an insult," but rather an attack on that person not fitting the role they're trying to portray. Feeding into their insecurities, I suppose.
Yup, I think you've hit on the fact that meaning is a matter of perspective.
If you were to call me gay, for example, I wouldn't be offended because being gay is bad, but I'd be annoyed because it's something I'm not (but could be seen as being by someone who didn't know better). So there's a threat to my identity there.
By contrast, if you were to call me black, I wouldn't be offended because being black is bad, and in fact wouldn't be offended at all because anyone looking at me would know I wasn't - my identity is never put in question.
If, on the other hand, you were to call me a girl, I wouldn't be offended because being a girl is bad, but I would be offended because your comment only makes sense as a shot at my masculinity - which is part of my identity.
Similarly, if you called a woman manly I would expect she'd be offended if she viewed femininity as part of her identity.
So the offensiveness of any "insult" cast on these sorts of bases not only depends on who the subject is, but who the subject believes him or herself to be.
And generally, these insults are designed to target their subject's identity: that's what makes them effective. They don't actually have to be premised on the "worseness" of the group the subject is said to belong to.
And yes, insults can be funny. But humour is in the eye of the beholder. That's why the first rule of comedy is "know your audience."
Sensitivity to the feelings of others is therefore not incompatible with comedy - in fact, it's necessary. But sensitivity to everyone's feelings is not compatible with some forms of comedy, and certainly not insult comedy.
So, all that to say, if you're going to insult someone on the internet, make it funny for as many as possible, and understand a few might not take it so well.
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In reality, different people are better at different things. People of African descent are better in some areas of physical ability due to tens of thousands of years of evolution. Certain ethnicities are more prone to lactose intolerance for the same reason. Hell, even skin color in an evolutionary trait related to general geographical areas people settled in.
Men and women are also physically different. Are there things that women can do better than men? Sure, but not everything.
Look at Olympic Records in weightlifting for the 69 kg category.
Men: 357 kg
Women: 286 kg
Pretending these differences don't exist doesn't help anyone.
I'll bite on the "trap". I would not like to be called "manly", because I'm socialized to place an extremely high value on my feminine characteristics and traits. It's important that women "look" a certain way (attractive), act a certain way (accommodating, nice), etc.
Calling a woman "manly" is not an insult to men. It's an insult to a woman because you're telling her she's not acting or looking womanly enough.
Likewise, calling a man girly is not an insult to females.. it implies that a man cannot carry out his masculine duties and does not "look" a certain way.
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Last edited by terminator; 04-14-2015 at 08:16 AM.
