9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

FunkMasterFlame · 08-02-2006, 02:29 AM

Its scary thinking that we're 5 years from 9/11 and we still don't have a credible explination for what happened that day.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101300_pf.html

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
Allegations Brought to Inspectors General
By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; A03

Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate.

Nehkara · 08-02-2006, 02:35 AM

Just a friendly reminder: do not post entire articles. Post a portion of the article and then a link. Like this:

This is the text of the article that I have a link below to!

This is the link for the article.

FunkMasterFlame · 08-02-2006, 02:41 AM

my mistake!

thanks fer the tip

Nehkara · 08-02-2006, 02:42 AM

No problem.

On topic:

Wow.

I don't believe the conspiracy theories but based on this article, the only conclusion I can come to is that the US was DESPERATELY unprepared for a direct attack on its soil... and that it hid that lack of preparedness from everyone by lying to the commission.

FunkMasterFlame · 08-02-2006, 02:57 AM

Its mindboggling that not even one person has been demoted, let alone fired, because of 9/11. Hell, the CIA Director at the time, George Tenet, got the freaking Presidential Medal of Freedom!!

Lanny_MacDonald · 08-02-2006, 06:04 AM

So the 9/11 Commission Report was BS? No!!! Say it isn't so!!! Who EVER would have considered that???

Oh my, you know what these gentlemen are suggesting now? That's right, they're suggesting that there was a "conspiracy" to hide the truth of the events that unfolded. Wow! Sure didn't see this coming.

Table 5 · 08-02-2006, 06:38 AM

I for one would like to see if Looger has an opinion on this matter.

Personally, I can't wait for the new WTC movie to tell me the real truth, cause hell, movies are what most of us down here learn from. According to what ive seen in the previews, it went down like this; some bad guys did something, Nicholas Cage showed up to save America with sheer patriotism, they played a little some heartstring-tugging music, the world saluted the flag, and we all felt inspired to go out and buy a bunch of crappy bumper stickers with eagles on them.

Seriously though, not to hijack this thread (bad choice of words for this thread, sorry) is anyone else a little turned off by this new movie? Seems like a really pathetic ploy to make some money by doing the same old ra-ra "We're #1" patriotic crapfest of a movie. Thing is you can't even really say anything, cause hell, its 9/11. This won't do jack in helping to heal any wounds...it will only heal any deficencies in somebody's wallet.

Agamemnon · 08-02-2006, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

Seriously though, not to hijack this thread (bad choice of words for this thread, sorry) is anyone else a little turned off by this new movie? Seems like a really pathetic ploy to make some money by doing the same old ra-ra "We're #1" patriotic crapfest of a movie. Thing is you can't even really say anything, cause hell, its 9/11. This won't do jack in helping to heal any wounds...it will only heal any deficencies in somebody's wallet.

Thats exactly what I thought of the preview. I thought for some reason the movie was advertised as 'a-political', but then the words (something like) "when the greatest evil attacked America...". That sounded sort of political (rightly or wrongly). I've a feeling it'll definitely be the biggest flag-waver since The Patriot.

Lanny_MacDonald · 08-02-2006, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

I for one would like to see if Looger has an opinion on this matter.

Why belittle the guy for his beliefs? It appears that the feelings of the commission members lend some support to a conspiracy angle. Maybe not to the extent of some of the wacko theories out there (and there are some loopy ones) but it does raise some more questions. And it also invalidates the findings of the 9/11 Commission as well, like that was any big surprise.

Quote:

Personally, I can't wait for the new WTC movie to tell me the real truth, cause hell, movies are what most of us down here learn from. According to what ive seen in the previews, it went down like this; some bad guys did something, Nicholas Cage showed up to save America with sheer patriotism, they played a little some heartstring-tugging music, the world saluted the flag, and we all felt inspired to go out and buy a bunch of crappy bumper stickers with eagles on them.

Seriously though, not to hijack this thread (bad choice of words for this thread, sorry) is anyone else a little turned off by this new movie? Seems like a really pathetic ploy to make some money by doing the same old ra-ra "We're #1" patriotic crapfest of a movie. Thing is you can't even really say anything, cause hell, its 9/11. This won't do jack in helping to heal any wounds...it will only heal any deficencies in somebody's wallet.

I had an opportunity to go to a private viewing of the movie last week and turned down the offer. From what I have heard from my co-workers, its a love it or hate it movie. If you're a dittohead you'll come out of the movie theatre in tears, thanking god you live in the greatest nation the planet has ever known. If you've got a brain in your head you'll come out shaking your head at thye unmitigated load of horse**** you've just been exposed to and yearn for those hours of your life back. Those are the reviews I heard. Personally, I can't see liking anything about it. I don't like Nick Cage (worst actor EVER) and the whole truth about 9/11 will never see the light of day. I think this could be one of the worst movies ever made.

Table 5 · 08-02-2006, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Why belittle the guy for his beliefs?

when a guy subscribes to the theory that the US government secretely planned out a whole attack against its own people by pulling off fake attacks against its public institutions and landmarks, crippling the economy and psyche of a country for years for the sole purpose of justifying a far-off war.....well, thats when i start to belittle. There is no doubt that US government has shady dealings, but there is a point when things start to get ridiculous.

100% agree about Nicholas Cage though. Man, what a horrible actor.

transplant99 · 08-02-2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Why belittle the guy for his beliefs?

.

Come on Lanny....you do it ALL the time.

Holy smokes.

Hakan · 08-02-2006, 09:49 AM

This is hardly news.

The 9/11 commission report has been roundly criticized for showing absolutely zero information. It's hardly a conspiracy to question what really went on when no one actually said what went on.

http://www.communitybuildingvancouver.com/whitewash.htm

Azure · 08-02-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

Seriously though, not to hijack this thread (bad choice of words for this thread, sorry) is anyone else a little turned off by this new movie? Seems like a really pathetic ploy to make some money by doing the same old ra-ra "We're #1" patriotic crapfest of a movie. Thing is you can't even really say anything, cause hell, its 9/11. This won't do jack in helping to heal any wounds...it will only heal any deficencies in somebody's wallet.

Its not the movie that gets me, or the fact that someone is making a movie about 9/11, but to me its ridiculous that public opinion will be dictated by THAT movie.

I still can't figure out why a tragedy would make a country patriotic. Don't you think we, as in everyone in North America, needs to reach a bit more to find out why we're patriotic for our country? And not always rely on the tragedies in life?

I think we need leaders that can be inspiring, not leaders that look for excuses when something goes wrong, or even want to play the blame game in every situation.

ken0042 · 08-02-2006, 10:26 AM

From seeing the trailers, I thought the movie was more about the heroic actions of the police and firefighters who lost their lives trying to save others. I imagine there will be some over dramatization, but that is to be expected.

Lanny_MacDonald · 08-02-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

when a guy subscribes to the theory that the US government secretely planned out a whole attack against its own people by pulling off fake attacks against its public institutions and landmarks, crippling the economy and psyche of a country for years for the sole purpose of justifying a far-off war.....well, thats when i start to belittle. There is no doubt that US government has shady dealings, but there is a point when things start to get ridiculous.

Spinning it that way, yes, it does sound like its on the edge of reason. But if you look at objectives that the group in question had, then maybe there is something to some of the theories. We know that there were elements within the Bush administration that had the desire to appease certain powerful lobbies in Washington (big oil, military industrial complex, etc.), and in the same breath make themselves some big money. We know that they had a desire to control access to information and in the same breath enhance their own access to information. We know that they wanted to enhance their control over many of the institutions that impact international policy. We know this because they published these desires. We also know that they foresaw threats/opportunities like this when they described the new Pearl Harbor. When you look at the the surface, it is on the edge to think such things. When you look beneath the surface at the undercurrents its not that nutty. We are talking about a group that lied their ever luvin' asses off to get into Iraq, spending billions and costing thousands their lives. I would not put anything past these creatures.

You know, when discussing 9/11, and having researched it quite well, there are just too many coincidences that took place for this thing to be on the up and up. My only question is how complicent are these people. To what extent did they allow the events to unfold? To what extent was intelligence ignored? To what extent was law enforcement told to back-off? To what extent was the military manipulated to be placed off guard? They are questions that need to be answered IMO. If there was any hint of negligence on the part of the government, that needs to come out. There is more than enough circumstantial evidence to demand an enquiry. This admission just adds fuel to the fire IMO.

Bingo · 08-02-2006, 10:53 AM

This was in the United 93 movie as well.

My thoughts ...

I think it's a real leap to jump to a conspiracy again. I know in my business life I can remember hundreds of times when a co worker or department got stuck with their pants down and then lied to save their ass. In my mind that's all this is ... a branch of the US defense system avoiding the "we didn't have a clue" explanation that likely developed that day.

Stone's WTC movie ...

I've heard the like it or not opinion, but everything I've read on it doesn't fit with your comments Lanny. I've read it's very non political, doesn't take sides on who planned it, who carried it out, who dropped the ball, etc at all. It's about fire fighters in the WTC trying to save lives ... a fact that nobody can debate.

Overall 911 conspiracies ...

I'll just leave them. I have a tough time biting my tongue on this stuff. Everyone has a right to their own beliefs, but some of the thoughts I've read on my site on this topic almost border on the insane to me.

FurnaceFace · 08-02-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

You know, when discussing 9/11, and having researched it quite well, there are just too many coincidences that took place for this thing to be on the up and up.

I'd be curious to have someone go back through history on all the "major events" and go through them with as fine a tooth comb as 9-11 seems to have gone through. I'd wager you'd find a number of coincidences and inconsistencies which could be viewed as conspiracy.

Example: D-Day. In brief, the German military had a major meeting of the northern defence commanders during period in June, they also had moved the bulk of their planes further inland for I believe exercises (I'd have to read The Longest Day again), and command refused to believe there was an invasion even though the front lines were telling them there was. Also after the landings Hitler refused to move his panzer divisions in to support. If you wanted to, you could claim someone was "pulling strings" to ensure the military was caught off guard by pulling the commanders off the front lines.

I'm sure someone better at conspiracy theories can come up with a better scenario but you see the point. Many many events in history, upon examination, don't have all the pieces fall neatly into the puzzle.

Bingo · 08-02-2006, 11:24 AM

the biggest issue with conspiracy theories in the present day is that they burden of proof (or to disprove in this case) now falls to the logical simple answer crowd ... not the way it should be.

Airline stocks heavily traded before 911 and I'm supposed to somehow prove this isn't related?

I went #2 today and the natural gas markets dropped almost instantly, but I'm fairly certain it would be really tough to prove the two were NOT related.

RedMan12 · 08-02-2006, 11:47 AM

what?!? The American government is deceiving people? Say it ain't so!

Lanny_MacDonald · 08-02-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Airline stocks heavily traded before 911 and I'm supposed to somehow prove this isn't related?

You're a trader, so you know the difference between a trade and a put option. The trading was limited to two specific airlines and the put options were 60-90 times higher (6000 to 9000% increase) than has ever been recorded for either airline. That in itself is extremely coincidental, but I guess it is possible that someone may have just wanted to gamble that just those two particular airlines would see their stocks tumble in the next few days. It is possible. But what happens when you add in the same level of put options placed on Morgan Stanley Dean Witter and Merrill Lynch, who were hit hard by the WTC collapse, you add a second coincidence that just doesn't add up. Finally, the body that would have been able to track and prosecute potenital fraud like this was housed WTC7 and saw all of their filings and computer systems destroyed. And as luck would have it, they did not have backups of any of the data stored off site. Coincidence number three. Does that add up?