QOTD: Are the Blues meddling in the wild card standings?

[GirlySports]

they have to look for what's best for them

for example if the Flames beat the Kings on the 9th and clinch a spot and Winnipeg is tied with the Kings going into the last game. The Flames are going to rest their players (unfair for the Kings)

[Armchair Quarterback]

Sorry, I left my tin foil hat at home.

They are not meddling, period. The big names get a rest while some of the other guys get a little more ice time.

[Erick Estrada]

Besides why would the Blues hide from the Kings when outside the Flames and Jets they have a losing record against the Wild, Preds, Hawks, Canucks, Ducks? There's really no place to hide for them because they are pretenders that are good at beating all the bad/mediocre teams and not very good at raising their game against the top teams in the West. I would expect regardless of who they play outside of the Flames and Jets that they will be eliminated in the first round and it's in their best interest to try and win out so they can face either of the Flames or Jets by finishing in 1st or 2nd in the Conference.

http://blues.nhl.com/club/teamvsteam.htm

[ClassicFlames04]

While I agree that the Blues, Nashville and other leading teams are doing what is best for them, it is naive to think they haven't thought of all possible scenarios. One of which includes avoiding the LA Kings.

I also do not think this discussion brings CP into disrepute. We are not the only ones discussing the potential that teams are doing this. I have heard radio shows which are discussing this exact thing, the just of which is "Wouldn't you be happier if the Flames were in and not the LA Kings."

Either way if it is a secondary result that there actions lead to potentially easier games for the Flames, I am all for it.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Bingo, IMHO, this question reflects poorly on the very high standards that CP usually upholds.

Your O is far from H if you feel you can preach to Bingo about standards.

NHL managements are drawing up team development strategies and contingency plans out as far as five years, maybe more. It is in their very nature to examine the pros and cons of every decision extensively.

To say that St. Louis hasn't even recognized that the timing of the rest and repair of key players in such a way that also decreases the probability of them facing a playoff opponent that can't seemingly be killed as an added bonus would be naive, IMHO.

[Sylvanfan]

Tricky definition in the poll question.

The Blues are essentially locked into the playoffs. They learned from last year that you need to be as healthy as possible in the playoffs, so at this point winning a game tonight is not as important as being ready to go on April 15th.

That's why I picked the top option.

Whether it's the Flames, Jets, Kings...St.Louis is only going to look after themselves and that's what will drive their decisions. If this was game one of the playoffs, I suspect they could be playing.

So I suppose I did chose the wrong option after reading how the question was phrased. I don't think St.Louis is holding them out because it's the Flames and they would play them against the Kings.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

Your O is far from H if you feel you can preach to Bingo about standards.

NHL managements are drawing up team development strategies and contingency plans out as far as five years, maybe more. It is in their very nature to examine the pros and cons of every decision extensively.

To say that St. Louis hasn't even recognized that the timing of the rest and repair of key players in such a way that also decreases the probability of them facing a playoff opponent that can't seemingly be killed as an added bonus would be naive, IMHO.

If you believe that purposely losing a game in order to manipulate the standings is the same thing as strategic -or contingency- planning then I don't know what to say to you.

Also, I challenge anyone to present a scenario whereby losing on purpose is in their best interests. And don't just say ' because they'd avoid the Kings'. Show us your high level planning.

The Blues have their own problems.

And being accused of manipulating the standings would bring them substantially more grief than any potential benefit.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If you believe that purposely losing a game in order to manipulate the standings is the same thing as strategic -or contingency- planning then I don't know what to say to you.

Also, I challenge anyone to present a scenario whereby losing on purpose is in their best interests. And don't just say ' because they'd avoid the Kings'. Show us your high level planning.

The Blues have their own problems.

And being accused of manipulating the standings would bring them substantially more grief than any potential benefit.

At least it appears you have gotten off your high horse and have seen there is actually material to discuss on this topic. Thanks for joining in.

Nobody is going to purposely lose (putting the whole McDavid race aside). However, there are always games throughout the year that get deemed must wins, and games that do not. For St. Louis, like many teams, I am sure there is a prioritized checklist to get done: playoffs, seeding, extending chances of success in the playoffs, etc.

In their position, if they NEED to rest key players, why would it be inconceivable to do it at a time where if a loss is taken as a result, it does the least amount of damage, and may even have fringe benefits attached?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

At least it appears you have gotten off your high horse and have seen there is actually material to discuss on this topic. Thanks for joining in.

Nobody is going to purposely lose (putting the whole McDavid race aside). However, there are always games throughout the year that get deemed must wins, and games that do not. For St. Louis, like many teams, I am sure there is a prioritized checklist to get done: playoffs, seeding, extending chances of success in the playoffs, etc.

In their position, if they NEED to rest key players, why would it be inconceivable to do it at a time where if a loss is taken as a result, it does the least amount of damage, and may even have fringe benefits attached?

This is not the same thing as manipulating the standings.

Are you suggesting that Hitchcock isn't trying to win this game and is thinking 'well, if we lose, it's bad for LA, so that would be ok'? Because I would argue that there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that he would think that.

[Gaudfather]

It has been said that last year the Blues management felt the team expended too much energy in finishing the regular season strong and were too gassed to have a long run in the playoffs. They clearly don't want a repeat of that this year.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is not the same thing as manipulating the standings.

Are you suggesting that Hitchcock isn't trying to win this game and is thinking 'well, if we lose, it's bad for LA, so that would be ok'? Because I would argue that there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that he would think that.

I think it is.

At the least, it is a distinction without a difference, as Kerr would say.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is not the same thing as manipulating the standings.

Are you suggesting that Hitchcock isn't trying to win this game and is thinking 'well, if we lose, it's bad for LA, so that would be ok'? Because I would argue that there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that he would think that.

You need to re-read my post, I think it was clear.

Nobody in St. Louis' organization is going to deliberately throw the game. They do however have the luxury of picking and choosing when to heal some key members of their roster.

If St. Louis was playing LA tonight, would those players be playing?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

You need to re-read my post, I think it was clear.

Nobody in St. Louis' organization is going to deliberately throw the game. They do however have the luxury of picking and choosing when to heal some key members of their roster.

If St. Louis was playing LA tonight, would those players be playing?

I don't need to re-read your post. And your continued attacks towards me do nothing to strengthen your arguments.

Manipulating the standings means losing on purpose.

I say that resting players and manipulating the standings are two completely different things. You are suggesting otherwise. We disagree.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

...

Manipulating the standings means losing on purpose.

I say that resting players and manipulating the standings are two completely different things...

I doubt very much there ever was a coach or GM in NHL that told the players directly "lose this game". So, unless you know otherwise, we agree: nobody is manipulating.

Then, by your own logic, playing a backup goalie and 3rd/4th lines more than it is usual for a team is not manipulating. Therefore, it's perfectly OK for coaches and/or GM's to do that as part of their overall strategy. Furthermore, you ignore the fact that the above strategy actually does reduce their chances of winning a game no matter how you look at it. And then you suggest that a mere suspicion of them doing so is "lowbrow" and unfit to some high posting standards? This is a pretty compromised point of view, don't you think?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

I doubt very much there ever was a coach or GM in NHL that told the players directly "lose this game". So, unless you know otherwise, we agree: nobody is manipulating.

Then, by your own logic, playing a backup goalie and 3rd/4th lines more than it is usual for a team is not manipulating. Therefore, it's perfectly OK for coaches and/or GM's to do that as part of their overall strategy. Furthermore, you ignore the fact that the above strategy actually does reduce their chances of winning a game no matter how you look at it. And then you suggest that a mere suspicion of them doing so is "lowbrow" and unfit to some high posting standards? This is a pretty compromised point of view, don't you think?

No I don't think.

I've already addressed these issues so this is my last post.

Let me try and make the distinction as clear as I can:

Every team needs to play backup goalies and occasionally rest players - especially prior to the playoffs. Doing so is simple roster management.

And when doing so, teams will choose games that are deemed less crucial to their own success (inter-conference games, games against the Oilers, etc)

This is NOT the same as losing on purpose. Manipulating the standings means losing on purpose. That is not hard to understand.

No team does that.

And accusing a team of doing it is classless, IMO.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't need to re-read your post. And your continued attacks towards me do nothing to strengthen your arguments.

Manipulating the standings means losing on purpose.

I say that resting players and manipulating the standings are two completely different things. You are suggesting otherwise. We disagree.

LOL. Now YOU are being attacked? Telling you to re-read my posts because you are putting words in my mouth is not an attack.

Show me once where I have suggested they are deliberately THROWING the game. As I have said repeatedly, these are very smart men, and to suggest the benefit of Calgary in vs. LA in hasn't crossed their minds at all seems very naive to me.

Resting players and having a potential influence on the standings are not two different things when you consider the pros and cons of the timing of when you do it.

[SofaProfessor]

I don't think they are necessarily meddling in the standings but I also suspect they would far rather see Calgary in the playoffs than LA. In either case, no matter who is on the ice or what team they're playing, the Blues will be playing to win.

[Dion]

The Blues would love to win the Presidents trophy and have home ice throughout the playoffs. To me it's the Blues struggling at the wrong time of the season.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

It has been said that last year the Blues management felt the team expended too much energy in finishing the regular season strong and were too gassed to have a long run in the playoffs. They clearly don't want a repeat of that this year.

They lost their last 6 last year (I think in regulation), leaving them playing the Blackhawks. As with last year, it is in their best interest to play hard to the end, to hopefully create a better match-up for themselves (although it is arguable who they might prefer to play in such a tough division).

[Vinny01]

Blues are playing a Flames team they have dominated twice this year. Their confidence should be high tonight and if key players are banged up rest them. They think they will still be able to win the game without the Steen, Tarasenko, and Elliot